Religion as socially-accepted mental illness

Wow. Whatever credibility you had is shattered now. Even the religious loons on this board don't try to claim Hitler was an atheist.

It's the standard theist's defense of religion's inhumanity to man--that hitler did it, and genghis khan did it, and stalin did it, therefore killing your neighbor because he didn't believe in the trinity isn't really such a bad thing after all. lol!
 
So you are saying that anyone with religion training cannot be an atheists even if they stopped and began to live by the atheist philosophy of man playing god?

No, he was simply stating a fact, that Hitler was as far as we can tell by his actions in religious affairs, a believer. He very well could have been a closet atheist acting out as a Catholic, but he never showed it. Whether or not he was a devout believer or just using the religious system as a tool, only he could had said, and he didn't.

Darwin also had early religious training so the father of evolution was religious? Or do atheist cherry pick to stack the deck based on the outcome?

It really doesn't matter what he believed, evolution still occurs. He could have recanted all his work on his death bed, as one myth says, and it wouldn't matter. Reality doesn't hinge upon one person's belief.

Are more religious people or liberal atheists on drugs?

You know, there are conservative atheists too. Just as there are liberal theists. Jesus was one.
 
you have once again evaded the question.

i guess you never heard of gengis khan, you know, that guy that did all of the above just because he felt his shit didn't stink.
no, you definitely do not need to be religious to be a throat slitter, or a baby killer.
oh yes, let's not forget hitler, i guess you didn't know he was an atheist.
Wow. At first I thought this was just another stupid thread from Magical Realist... But, you have me second guessing myself. In some cases religion may indeed be a form of mental illness.
 
Wow. At first I thought this was just another stupid thread from Magical Realist... But, you have me second guessing myself. In some cases religion may indeed be a form of mental illness.

I see it more as an inability or possibly a lack of desire to rationalize one's own beliefs. That's why so many religious arguments either end with agreement to leave it alone, or get very defensive. It's hard to question something that makes you feel good inside.

It's not just religion that has this problem, lots of topics have their devout believers who behave the same way when questioned about their subject too deeply. It's actually difficult to be objective and skeptical without some practice, and when it's a personal thing, even more so.

I've been the same way about some science subjects, until that one 'aha' moment, that lets you step away and see the whole picture and why what you thought was true actually has less foundation than you were led to believe. To be objective is to let the facts led the way and not get caught up in what you want to be true.
 
Darwin also had early religious training so the father of evolution was religious?

Yes, he was. Most Christians today understand evolution as how we came to be.

Or do atheist cherry pick to stack the deck based on the outcome?

You're mixing too many metaphors here. What are you talking about?

Are more religious people or liberal atheists on drugs?

Ted Haggard comes to mind. Founded three churches, solicited millions in donations to his ultra-conservative right wing churches. Very anti-gay.

Turns out he was using gay hookers and buying meth from them.
 
Wow. At first I thought this was just another stupid thread from Magical Realist... But, you have me second guessing myself. In some cases religion may indeed be a form of mental illness.
i have no idea what you and the others are referring to.
you might be confusing me with a theist which i'm not.
 
religious loon.
as opposed to what?
an atheist loon?

what is a religious loon anyway?
throat slitter? that would be a fanatic right?
that seems to be the entire point of this thread.
 
you have once again evaded the question.

i guess you never heard of gengis khan, you know, that guy that did all of the above just because he felt his shit didn't stink.
no, you definitely do not need to be religious to be a throat slitter, or a baby killer.
But it helps. Lack of a religion was never suggested to prevent violence, but it doesn't explicitly cause it (in the absence of religious persecution).


oh yes, let's not forget hitler, i guess you didn't know he was an atheist.
Even if he was, the Germans were not atheists, and certainly the Pope who supported him wasn't atheist. Don't forget Germans had a centuries long history of hating the Jews for religious reasons.
 
Mr persecutor of Christians take notice before you continue vomiting your BS. Christ is the lieder, He did not kill antibody He raised people from the death , A true Christian will not kill anybody, those that kill are your people who disquiet themselves as Christians , you know that and all that have read the New Testament > So stop playing that same music over and over . You make it hard for me to be a Christian. I am supposed to love you, but you make it difficult for me.
Jesus said:
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Luke 19:27
 
Jesus said:
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Luke 19:27

That is part of the Parable of the Minas. Jesus is not saying that; Jesus is telling a story in which an evil noble who his hated by his citizens says that.

Jesus is pretty clear on how Christians should act when he speaks about it during the Sermon on the Mount - and it doesn't include killing people.
 
That is part of the Parable of the Minas. Jesus is not saying that; Jesus is telling a story in which an evil noble who his hated by his citizens says that.

Jesus is pretty clear on how Christians should act when he speaks about it during the Sermon on the Mount - and it doesn't include killing people.

Jesus told that story as an example. And he ends it with a rather horrible statement.
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but just responding to the subject-line, I don't think that religion is a socially-accepted mental illness.

That would suggest that not only is a solid majority of the world's population mentally ill, it would suggest that mental illness is kind of a cultural universal in human societies.

That raises problems in defining 'illness'. That word suggests a state in which the ill individual deviates in a negative direction from some physiological (or in this case psychological) norm. But if a great majority of the population displays the state in question, then we are going to have a problem with defining the norm that isn't being met. It certainly can't be statistical.

We seem to be drifting towards a new kind of definition, in which 'illness' is redefined as deviation from some idealized state of perfection. And that pushes 'illness' dangerously close to the older meaning of 'sin'.

That's not to suggest that religion is always a good thing or that it's always rational. I'm just suggesting that 'mental illness' might not be the best way to conceptualize the phenomenon. It's something a lot more basic in normal human psychology.

My speculation is that it's kind of an 'unintended consequence' resulting from other, more adaptive, psychological traits. There's our sense of closure, our typical confidence that we have the big picture generally figured out. Since there are inevitably going to be huge objective gaps in that picture, we seem to fill them in imaginatively. There's our human social instincts that make us most comfortable around other human beings and make us naturally think in terms of meaning and conscious intentions, leading to our tendency to anthropomorphize non-human reality and to imagine personal deities. And there's the observation that human beings tend to find meaning in their own lives (and by extension in the universe as a whole) by fitting events into narrative stories.
 
But it helps. Lack of a religion was never suggested to prevent violence, but it doesn't explicitly cause it (in the absence of religious persecution).
so what's it gonna be when and if religion is eradicated?
eye color?
skin color?
me big chief dumb fuck?
Even if he was, the Germans were not atheists, and certainly the Pope who supported him wasn't atheist. Don't forget Germans had a centuries long history of hating the Jews for religious reasons.
the thread is supposed to be about religion as an illness.
the problem is defining exactly what we are talking about here.
don't forget the hatfields and mccoys battled it out just because one of them was wronged generations ago.
getting rid of religion will not solve the worlds murder problem, i seriously doubt it will even put a dent in it.
 
so what's it gonna be when and if religion is eradicated?
eye color?
skin color?
me big chief dumb fuck?

the thread is supposed to be about religion as an illness.
the problem is defining exactly what we are talking about here.
don't forget the hatfields and mccoys battled it out just because one of them was wronged generations ago.
getting rid of religion will not solve the worlds murder problem, i seriously doubt it will even put a dent in it.
It would get rid of all the murders, killings, and beheadings caused explicitly by religion, which is not an insignificant type of crime against humanity.

But getting rid of religion is not a goal of atheism.
 
That would be specifically antitheism. Or in some situations militant atheism, although that can also be more of reaction to theism being forced upon someone.
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but just responding to the subject-line, I don't think that religion is a socially-accepted mental illness.

That would suggest that not only is a solid majority of the world's population mentally ill, it would suggest that mental illness is kind of a cultural universal in human societies.

That raises problems in defining 'illness'. That word suggests a state in which the ill individual deviates in a negative direction from some physiological (or in this case psychological) norm. But if a great majority of the population displays the state in question, then we are going to have a problem with defining the norm that isn't being met. It certainly can't be statistical.

We seem to be drifting towards a new kind of definition, in which 'illness' is redefined as deviation from some idealized state of perfection. And that pushes 'illness' dangerously close to the older meaning of 'sin'.

That's not to suggest that religion is always a good thing or that it's always rational. I'm just suggesting that 'mental illness' might not be the best way to conceptualize the phenomenon. It's something a lot more basic in normal human psychology.

My speculation is that it's kind of an 'unintended consequence' resulting from other, more adaptive, psychological traits. There's our sense of closure, our typical confidence that we have the big picture generally figured out. Since there are inevitably going to be huge objective gaps in that picture, we seem to fill them in imaginatively. There's our human social instincts that make us most comfortable around other human beings and make us naturally think in terms of meaning and conscious intentions, leading to our tendency to anthropomorphize non-human reality and to imagine personal deities. And there's the observation that human beings tend to find meaning in their own lives (and by extension in the universe as a whole) by fitting events into narrative stories.

I don't see delusional states of mind as any less "ill" or "dysfunctional" just because they are the norm in a society or culture. In some cultures they used to cut the hearts out of virgins regularly to ensure good crop yield. But that doesn't make that behavior any less psychopathic or inhuman. Delusions are delusions no matter if they are held by you alone or held by the group you happen to be part of. The history of religion is the story of what happens when the delusional get to be in charge of societies and all the mayhem that results from that. Can you imagine if we elected a president that really believed Jesus was about to return to earth to incinerate the nations of the world in order to take christians back to heaven and later establish his global kingdom on a post-millenial earth? ? Would we really want someone with such delusions with their finger on the red button? We like to think delusions are harmless now because we live in a democracy that largely prevents the delusional from acting out the full consequences of their beliefs. But they're not. In many subtil and quiet ways they continue to destroy the lives of children and young people by promoting terror and grandiosity and divisiveness and dehumanizing attitudes towards those who are different.
 
Can you imagine if we elected a president that really believed Jesus was about to return to earth to incinerate the nations of the world in order to take christians back to heaven and later establish his global kingdom on a post-millenial earth? ? Would we really want someone with such delusions with their finger on the red button?

Reagan believed that. We seemed to do OK. From him:

"We may be the generation that sees Armageddon. . . .For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ."
 
Back
Top