Religion as socially-accepted mental illness

Balerion said:
And what's the balm to your BS? Oh, right, direct engagement and logical arguments. Do that, and wynn disappears into the night, never to be seen in the thread again!
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Jealousy is the scent of desperation.
:shrug:
 
lightgigantic said:
I can show the reality of that claim quite easily - just look at this thread and note the complete absence in Magical Realists Op or subsequent posts that has anything to do with the previous links I gave.
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Due to the iffy forum search function, I can't find the post where James R stated that epistemology does not apply on the level of the individual.
This view of epistemology explains some people's absence of interest to discuss terms such as "real."
 
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leopold said:
good point, i likewise find it virtually impossible to envision an intelligent, invisible, all loving, all powerful entity.
personally i find it next to impossible.

there are many things our cave dwelling ancestors would find "magical" about todays society.

paranoia is defined as an irrational fear or fear without a cause.
i do not see many "religious" people that fit that description.

how do the above equate to "religion as an illness"?

i am positive you go through many rituals during a normal day.

the "fanatical religious" IS NOT the norm.
would you seriously prosecute the many over the acts of a few?

you can rest assured that EVERY president we have ever had was the anti-christ to someone.
if they can't use religion they use will some other excuse such as a powerhead that wants to take over the world.

have you dug into the ancient history of israel and jerusalem?
when it comes to gays i have my own personal opinion and i seriously doubt you want to hear it.

the keyword here is again "fanatic".

not weird, but you have mistaken a few things.
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Definition of a fanatic: anyone who takes their religion totally seriously. See Moses, Jesus Christ, St. Paul, Mohammed, Constantine, Torquemada, Joan of Arc, Martin Luther, Cotton Mather, Joseph Smith, Carrie Nation, Jim Jones, David Koresch, the Pope, Osama Bin Laden,..and so on and so forth...
 
Magical Realist said:
Definition of a fanatic: anyone who takes their religion totally seriously.
. . . the Pope, . . .
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this statement alone proves you have no clue what you are talking about.
"fanatic" can be applied to all manner of people and things.
i believe you are "complaining" just because you can, and for no other reason.

it's amazing that you, yourself, are guilty of the very things you accuse others of.
you cannot possibly tell me you aren't fanatical about some things, that you do not perform rituals each and every day, and that you have a very strong "belief" about certain things.
 
Magical Realist said:
Definition of a fanatic: anyone who takes their religion totally seriously. See Moses, Jesus Christ, St. Paul, Mohammed, Constantine, Torquemada, Joan of Arc, Martin Luther, Cotton Mather, Joseph Smith, Carrie Nation, Jim Jones, David Koresch, the Pope, Osama Bin Laden,..and so on and so forth...
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That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
 
rodereve said:
Mental illness is based off of the current population, a group that deviates from the norm.
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So by your definition, someone wih an IQ of 160 is mentally ill?

Lets say that color-blind people see red as green, and blue as yellow, and its a rare mutations that prevents your eyes from processing and recognizing colors. What if the actual mutation was much more common and resulted in the general population having a deficiency of seeing green as red, and yellow as blue, and the color-blind people are actually seeing the correct wavelength/color match, albeit less people possess the normal gene.
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It's a terrible example, since colorblind people have a deficiency; they cannot see the difference in certain colors and so have problems differentiating between (for example) red and green traffic lights.

Here's a somewhat better example. Some women have an additional blue receptor that allows them to differentiate better between blue colors. This is rare (a few percent.) Do these people have a "disease" because they are not like the norm?

Any illness/disease must, by definition, result in disability, suffering or serious injury (loss of body parts, death etc.) If not, it's not a disease. Having a third kidney, for example, is not a disease.
 
Magical Realist said:
Strawman. So far I've listed traits that by any trained psychiatrist would be characterized as a disorder. OCD. Sociopathy. Megalomania.
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Again, you do not understand the definition of "mentally ill." If someone is obsessed with physics, and they are a physicist, and are perfectly happy, and function well in their jobs - then they do not have a mental illness. Even if it meets the DSM-V definition of OCD.

Don't take my word for it, though. Ask a psychiatrist.

And delusional states of mind positing invisible magical beings behind everyday events.
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See above.

I am firmly convinced that religion DOES cause suffering in people's lives and enslaves them in cycles of fear and guilt that they would not have were they not brainwashed to believe it. It makes people less than what they could have been and has a sordid history of inspiring hate bigotry and persecution of those on the outside of it.
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Yes. So do atheist organizations. The former government of the USSR comes to mind. Does that mean that atheism is a mental illness?
 
billvon said:
Again, you do not understand the definition of "mentally ill." If someone is obsessed with physics, and they are a physicist, and are perfectly happy, and function well in their jobs - then they do not have a mental illness. Even if it meets the DSM-V definition of OCD.
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Nor is feeling miserable and not being able to function in a particular social or ecological environment automatically evidence of mental illness; it may actually be evidence of sanity.

For example, if someone is miserable and dysfunctional while being forced to live as a hostage among terrorists, that feeling miserable and dysfunction are not evidence that the person is mentally ill.
 
Balerion said:
Oh bullshit. Your entire argument relies on the premise that there is some supernatural realm beyond the material one.
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And if there were, people like you would cover up its existence. There are mechanisms that would allow a disembodied spirit to stimulate thoughts in someone's brain and ease drop into that person's consciousness without leaving any traceable evidence. While this mechanism might inspire peace of mind in a vast majority of the public, evil people like you perpetuate doubt and negativity with blunt skepticism.
 
leopold said:
what exactly would you like to see added, deleted, and/ or changed in the 10 commandments?

you DO realize that most of those precepts are pretty well universal in scope, right?
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You're kidding right? Let's see..the first 4 deal with specific dogmatic practices of Judaism. Of the last 6 only three could be applied universally: don't murder, don't steal, and don't commit perjury. The remaining 3 are social folkways specific to culture and have nothing to do with morality. You have to remember these were just the first of many laws and taboos designed for a tribe of Jewish desert nomads living in about 1500 BC. Nothing about them is exceptional or even particularly original.
 
wynn said:
Nor is feeling miserable and not being able to function in a particular social or ecological environment automatically evidence of mental illness; it may actually be evidence of sanity.
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That's great! And then that sane person would go to a psychiatrist; that psychiatrist could them help them not feel miserable and/or function in the social environment they want to be in.

Sane people can have mental illnesses. Someone who believes that Jesus will save them might well be perfectly sane and not have any mental illness; someone who is an atheist with a vision of the world founded in stark reality might well be depressed etc. and need the services of a doctor.

For example, if someone is miserable and dysfunctional while being forced to live as a hostage among terrorists, that feeling miserable and dysfunction are not evidence that the person is mentally ill.
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Of course. Likewise if they have terminal cancer. They might well be depressed - and again, a psychiatrist could help them with that.
 
Magical Realist said:
You're kidding right? Let's see..the first 4 deal with specific dogmatic practices of Judaism. Of the last 6 only three could be applied universally: don't murder, don't steal, and don't commit perjury. The remaining 3 are social mores specific to culture and have nothing to do with morality. You have to remember these were just the first of many laws and taboos designed for a tribe of Jewish desert nomads living in about 1500 BC. Nothing about them is exceptional or even particularly original.
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Exceptional and original? Are you stupid? They are called commandments, not deep thoughts, for a reason. This is God telling the Hebrews and asserting His authority. This is God saying: I created the universe and I can exert total power over you in life and in death; do as I say or suffer my wrath.

"Exception or original" is just a stupid comment to make.
 
Mazulu said:
Exceptional and original? Are you stupid? They are called commandments, not deep thoughts, for a reason. This is God telling the Hebrews and asserting His authority. This is God saying: I created the universe and I can exert total power over you in life and in death; do as I say or suffer my wrath.

"Exception or original" is just a stupid comment to make.
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Well someone had to reign in all the boiling of kids in their mother's milk. It was way out of control.
 
Magical Realist said:
You're kidding right?
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no.
Let's see..the first 4 deal with specific dogmatic practices of Judaism.
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i agree.
Of the last 6 only three could be applied universally: don't murder, don't steal, and don't commit perjury. The remaining 3 are social folkways specific to culture and have nothing to do with morality. You have to remember these were just the first of many laws and taboos designed for a tribe of Jewish desert nomads living in about 1500 BC. Nothing about them is exceptional or even particularly original.
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wrong.
the last 6 are valid and important points.
do you disagree with any of those 6?

what others would you like to see added?
 
Mazulu said:
And if there were, people like you would cover up its existence.
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Of course you'll plead conspiracy. That way you're never wrong.

There are mechanisms that would allow a disembodied spirit to stimulate thoughts in someone's brain and ease drop into that person's consciousness without leaving any traceable evidence.
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Oh? What are they, exactly?

While this mechanism might inspire peace of mind in a vast majority of the public, evil people like you perpetuate doubt and negativity with blunt skepticism.
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Fire and brimstone bullshit, typical of your side. People who disagree with your brainwashed sheep faith are "evil," somehow.

Have an original thought.
 
Mazulu said:
Exceptional and original? Are you stupid? They are called commandments, not deep thoughts, for a reason. This is God telling the Hebrews and asserting His authority. This is God saying: I created the universe and I can exert total power over you in life and in death; do as I say or suffer my wrath.

"Exception or original" is just a stupid comment to make.
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Are you stupid? (Are you even self-aware enough to answer that question?) Do you not see the object of mentioning how unoriginal and unexceptional these commandments are? How broad yet incomplete they are? Again, recognizing this would no doubt require an intellect capable of rational thought, so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but the question should at least be asked.
 
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