religion and atheism from a psychological perspective

[(Q)]

So in reality none of you who post here are doing anything other than making up fantasies to quite your fears of what hapens next

The only people who move past this are the apathetic agnostics who just dont give a shit what happens next and concentrate on what happens NOW.

Not really, "apathetic agnostics" are essentially 'fence sitters' - the problem is that they give equal credibility to theists claims for gods as they do for atheists who don't accept those claims.

We should be sending them a dime so they can go out and buy themselves a spine.

 

[swarm]

Actually not caring is the better of the positions. The theist's delusions aren't really that important.

 

[swarm]

yet you still chose life?
how uncanny ....

So? Not every one does you know. I still fail to see what point you are trying to make.

so its more a belief that there is no solution?

No it is the realization that anticipating distress is simply needless self flagellation and all you need to do to resolve it is stop doing it.

your schismatic disagreement in one post and blindness to recognize the schism in the next makes me wonder whats exactly in your mind ....

I've been perfectly straight forward about it. I'm not diametrically opposed to theists.

 

[(Q)]

Actually not caring is the better of the positions. The theist's delusions aren't really that important.

Agreed, but if we don't care about their delusions having an influence over our lives, then we deserve everything their delusions will affect.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Simple: If God exists, then there is more to life than just that which we usually perceive through our senses.

If God exists He might not want you to know it. You can philosophise, speculate and guess all you want and you'll never know the truth. It just isn't worth the time & effort. Great brain exercise maybe but not beneficial to anyone else.

As for more to life than what we perceive....hardly. There is nothing you can perceive that I can't. You and me, we're not special and we're equally equipped with sensory devices. Right now life is whatever you think it is. For me, more to life means discovering exactly what it is.

 

[lightgigantic]

swarm

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
yet you still chose life?
how uncanny ....
”
So? Not every one does you know. I still fail to see what point you are trying to make.

death catalyzes a change of perspective (unless one is a fool)

“
so its more a belief that there is no solution?
”
No it is the realization that anticipating distress is simply needless self flagellation and all you need to do to resolve it is stop doing it.

once again, anticipating distress is what distinguishes an intelligent person from a hopeless fool

“
your schismatic disagreement in one post and blindness to recognize the schism in the next makes me wonder whats exactly in your mind ....
”
I've been perfectly straight forward about it. I'm not diametrically opposed to theists.

... yet you retort in opposition to practically all of their claims
:scratchin:

 

[lightgigantic]

Psychotic Episode
“

Originally Posted by greenberg
Simple: If God exists, then there is more to life than just that which we usually perceive through our senses.
”
If God exists He might not want you to know it. You can philosophise, speculate and guess all you want and you'll never know the truth.

until of course one decides to take the plunge and venture on to application, yes

It just isn't worth the time & effort. Great brain exercise maybe but not beneficial to anyone else.

great actions require great ideas

As for more to life than what we perceive....hardly. There is nothing you can perceive that I can't.

the claim to being a physicist is not so much of having a unique eyeball ... its more akin to having unique training. Spiritual life is much the same

You and me, we're not special and we're equally equipped with sensory devices. Right now life is whatever you think it is. For me, more to life means discovering exactly what it is.

differences ensue when one party advocates that the discovery lies in how the consciousness drives the senses and the other advocates that it is simply all about the senses

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

until of course one decides to take the plunge and venture on to application, yes

While ignoring the obvious

great actions require great ideas

As in God killing people en masse?

the claim to being a physicist is not so much of having a unique eyeball ... its more akin to having unique training. Spiritual life is much the same

I think that in order to be a spiritual trainer a unique eyeball is a prerequisite

differences ensue when one party advocates that the discovery lies in how the consciousness drives the senses and the other advocates that it is simply all about the senses

My senses tell me that you don't know what you're talking about. OK, I won't be so harsh.... my senses tell me you think you know what you're talking about.

 

[Asguard]

q i think you need to look up the word APATHETIC again
Basically agnostic means either has no opinion, belives they could be wrong ect (your right, fence sitters) however when you add apathetic onto the state it means they just dont give a shit about the debate either way.

Basically i would much rather spend my time debating morality and politics and influancing people that way than worry about wether or not they belive in god

 

[swarm]

death catalyzes a change of perspective (unless one is a fool)

You are the fool if you let your fear of death control your life.

once again, anticipating distress is what distinguishes an intelligent person from a hopeless fool

I have better things to do than sit around worrying about things which don't exist. You may foolishly concern yourself with as many phantoms as you care to.

yet you retort in opposition to practically all of their claims

That is because you have offered nothing of substance yet.

 

[lightgigantic]

swarm

“ Originally Posted by lightgigantic
death catalyzes a change of perspective (unless one is a fool) ”

You are the fool if you let your fear of death control your life.

looking both ways before crossing the road does seem to offer benefits ....

“ once again, anticipating distress is what distinguishes an intelligent person from a hopeless fool ”

I have better things to do than sit around worrying about things which don't exist.

so do I

You may foolishly concern yourself with as many phantoms as you care to.

meanwhile languish in the medium of unavoidable attachment to things that will shortly not exist while your molars rot ... I certainly hope you strike up enough relationships with permissive pharmacists to make your brief life free from anxiety ...

“ yet you retort in opposition to practically all of their claims ”

That is because you have offered nothing of substance yet.

sitting on your laurels and retorting "that's a load of BS" is substantial?

 

[lightgigantic]

psychotic episode

“ Originally Posted by lightgigantic
until of course one decides to take the plunge and venture on to application, yes ”

While ignoring the obvious

which is?

“ great actions require great ideas ”

As in God killing people en masse?

If you had eternal existence in a material state you would beg for death

“ the claim to being a physicist is not so much of having a unique eyeball ... its more akin to having unique training. Spiritual life is much the same ”

I think that in order to be a spiritual trainer a unique eyeball is a prerequisite

a remarkably similar retort to what a high school drop out could make in regard to a physics teacher .....

“ differences ensue when one party advocates that the discovery lies in how the consciousness drives the senses and the other advocates that it is simply all about the senses ”

My senses tell me that you don't know what you're talking about. OK, I won't be so harsh.... my senses tell me you think you know what you're talking about.

Ironically, the sense you talk about is not empirically defined, unless you indicate the genes and chemicals that dictate such a state of being

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
until of course one decides to take the plunge and venture on to application, yes ”

While ignoring the obvious

which is?

The real world, the truth, your deluded mind.

If you had eternal existence in a material state you would beg for death

That would be illogical. I would enjoy every minute of it. I've heard Xian theists say that God had originally intended us to be immortal in the material state. I wish you guys would unify with one another.

I think that in order to be a spiritual trainer a unique eyeball is a prerequisite

a remarkably similar retort to what a high school drop out could make in regard to a physics teacher .....

You're putting yourself on a pedestal again. All this bantering is really some kind of class issue with you isn't it. You're a John Cleese fan, didn't you just love the part in the movie 'Monty Python & The Holy Grail' when King Arthur comes across two peasants working in the field who by their words exhibit a far superior intellect than his. You're so off base that you are barely clinging to that pedestal your on.

Ironically, the sense you talk about is not empirically defined, unless you indicate the genes and chemicals that dictate such a state of being

Ok, my intuitive nature. Sense seems to be a word you've taken to heart, so I use it. I'm no biochemist, I'm nothing special like some people here, I'm animated matter capable of thought . Thought that allows me to have a chance to survive in the only existence we all know and have proof of.

 

[lightgigantic]

Psychotic Episode

While ignoring the obvious
”
“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
which is?
”
The real world, the truth, your deluded mind.

its slightly embarrassing the way you turn a discussion on "what is the nature of truth, etc" on premises like these ....

“

If you had eternal existence in a material state you would beg for death
”
That would be illogical. I would enjoy every minute of it.

old age and disease sound groovy to you?

I've heard Xian theists say that God had originally intended us to be immortal in the material state. I wish you guys would unify with one another.

There is no scope for unification in the minds of persons who insist on a shallow investigation of theistic claims.

“

I think that in order to be a spiritual trainer a unique eyeball is a prerequisite
”
“
a remarkably similar retort to what a high school drop out could make in regard to a physics teacher .....
”
You're putting yourself on a pedestal again.

Its not a pedestal.
Its a fact of knowledge

"Experience dictates the knowable"

Schools work on this principle.
University works on this principle.
Even on the job training works on this principle.

It helps us distinguish between a doctor and a carpenter in our dire hours of need.

All this bantering is really some kind of class issue with you isn't it. You're a John Cleese fan, didn't you just love the part in the movie 'Monty Python & The Holy Grail' when King Arthur comes across two peasants working in the field who by their words exhibit a far superior intellect than his. You're so off base that you are barely clinging to that pedestal your on.

I think its a sign of the times that cleese has a different focus now

“
Ironically, the sense you talk about is not empirically defined, unless you indicate the genes and chemicals that dictate such a state of being
”
Ok, my intuitive nature. Sense seems to be a word you've taken to heart, so I use it. I'm no biochemist, I'm nothing special like some people here, I'm animated matter capable of thought . Thought that allows me to have a chance to survive in the only existence we all know and have proof of.

but that sense of thought is not empiricially definable. When you respond to a claim "consciousness is not an empirically definable object", you shoot yourself in the foot when mention "I have a sense that you are talking BS"

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

but that sense of thought is not empiricially definable. When you respond to a claim "consciousness is not an empirically definable object", you shoot yourself in the foot when mention "I have a sense that you are talking BS"

I read this somewhere once but I think it bears mentioning. Although the very use of it somewhat weakens the point I'm about to make.

Empirical evidence is basically indisputable whereas all of your arguments rest on hearsay(my previous paragraph's point), testimonial, revelatory, spectral and emotional evidence....not one of which is reliable.

Yours are primarily of the revelatory or revealed to you by some deity and of the emotional, evidence gathered by your subjective thoughts or feelings. Those two are hard to argue for or against.

Yawn. I think everyone who reads this stuff is getting pretty bored by now. I know I am. Nothing changes, the pattern of point-counterpoint is intertwined with subtle & blatant sniping with the occasional sprinkle of sarcasm and irony. Insults, condescending attitudes, and outright character assassinations are making PE a dull boy. I don't consider this a good use of my mind & I don't know why I'm even bothering.

I think I'll take my empiric brain and use it for something more purposeful. Religion is dulling my intellect, I feel like I'm wasting time discussing nothing. I need to sharpen up and getting away from this garbage is one way. Religion is so unimportant. I call religious people delusional but I'm guilty of being delusional myself if I think I can sway a mind that's already gone. Thanks for the inspiration LG, I'm on sabbatical.

 

[Asguard]

Q i thought of an example to show you what i mean

American "football"

Team x is in first place and has a 10 game lead over Team Y who are in last place and are 3 games behind everyone else. Its the last game before the finals (if US football HAS finals but if it doesnt pretend it does)

Surporter of team x and team y both say to me they are going to make the finals. Of course the only way team y would get in is if pandemic flu came around and killed off all the team members of the other teams.

Now if i gave a shit team i would have to agree that the surporter of team y was seriously misslead but as i dont give 2 craps either way i dont say anything and just walk away compleatly uncaring and focus on something important.

This is no different from the way an apathetic person would view religion

 

[swarm]

looking both ways before crossing the road does seem to offer benefits ....

There is no need to fear death to use your eyes.

so do I

Yet you expect me to do so...

I certainly hope you strike up enough relationships with permissive pharmacists to make your brief life free from anxiety ...

My life has already not been brief and it already is free from anxiety.

sitting on your laurels and retorting "that's a load of BS" is substantial?

When that is what you offer it seems the appropriate response.

 

[lightgigantic]

I read this somewhere once but I think it bears mentioning. Although the very use of it somewhat weakens the point I'm about to make.

Empirical evidence is basically indisputable

for those who are sufficiently trained to either confirm or dispute it, yes. Certainly explains why forensic scientists are called in to evidence certain claims instead of a janitor, even though both might be in the employ of the same organization

whereas all of your arguments rest on hearsay(my previous paragraph's point), testimonial, revelatory, spectral and emotional evidence....not one of which is reliable.

actually the claim rests upon application. For some reason you have not been able to understand this simple point even though I practically repeat it in every post. Instead you insist on it being ultimately philosophical, emotional, etc etc.
Perhaps during your sabbatical you could clean your ears out and improve your empirical sense of hearing.

 

[lightgigantic]

swarm

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
looking both ways before crossing the road does seem to offer benefits ....
”
There is no need to fear death to use your eyes.

there is a need if one anticipates distress however

“
so do I
”
Yet you expect me to do so...

what?
change your values?
I'm afraid you are going to have to do your own dirty work ....

“
I certainly hope you strike up enough relationships with permissive pharmacists to make your brief life free from anxiety ...
”
My life has already not been brief and it already is free from anxiety.

hehe

“
sitting on your laurels and retorting "that's a load of BS" is substantial?
”
When that is what you offer it seems the appropriate response.