religion and atheism from a psychological perspective

[lightgigantic]

I'm not really worried about death, but I wouldn't mind sticking around.

Probably a few job vacancies in the democratic republic of congo whenever you are ready ...

I quite sure not one theist has ever known what happens after you die.

I presume your surety is simply your ideas of knowledge following your values/opinions

Personally I don't think I'll continue anywhere and if I do it will be a surprise.

Personally I think it would be a great surprise to be able to give a car a wheel alignment too
(.... mainly because, personally, I am not a mechanic)

Again, atheism is about an absence of belief in God and I can't see why afterlife is a concern.

I think the concern lies more in what preempts the next life - Death.

 

[lightgigantic]

swarm

Originally Posted by PsychoticEpisode
Death is bad for an atheist.
”
No it isn't.

you don't think the sudden nearness of death could seriously derail your stability in life?

“
Two reasons....the first is that it is all over, oblivion, nothing more, done, finished.
”
And this is bad how?

I guess he was assuming that you lead a somewhat normal life with friends, relationships, material earnings, etc and weren't living a life like a Trappist monk

“
Secondly what if the theists are right, it's off to hell we go.
”
No, it just means that something happens after death. Being right about that doesn't mean they got anything else right and in particular, do you really think gods are as stupid, mean, petty, jealous and down right evil as the theists make them out to be?

IOW any personality that has the audacity to discipline you is stupid, mean, petty, etc?

And which theists in particular would be the right ones?

I don't know what religious discipline you have in mind that suggest that the next life exists independent of how one acts in this life ....

If there is anything after death the one thing you can know for sure is the theists got it dead wrong.

why?
Even atheists who carve out a career in religious studies don't suggest that the inter-connection between theistic claims is without any common grounds.
:shrug:

 

[James R]

Asguard:

Basically there are 3 possable senarios we know about (all others are just combinations of these)

1) there is nothing after death
2) there is something good after death
3) there is something bad after death

Now as we are all afraid of death we are atracted to the choice which best alays our fears.

Many people, theists and atheists, would argue that they are attracted to the choice that they believe is correct, and not just the choice that best allays their fears.

I don't think you can present any evidence for your claim about psychology.

 

[scorpius]

Now as we are all afraid of death.

see thats where youre wrong...Im not afraid of death.

 

[greenberg]

Again, atheism is about an absence of belief in God and I can't see why afterlife is a concern.

Simple: If God exists, then there is more to life than just that which we usually perceive through our senses. All major religious traditions discuss those issues that are beyond that which we usually perceive through our senses.
That "more to life" including concerns about what happens before birth and after death, how planet Earth came to being, why the Sun shines and why it rains ... what true happiness is, why living beings suffer ... what sort of person to marry, what career path to take ... whether to eat meat or drink alcohol or not ...


So anyone wondering about God will also wonder about those things in life that are more than just that which we usually perceive through our senses.
Unless they have received their notions about theism in strictly philosophical Western circles focused on the "God of the gaps".

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I am not afraid of death the least little bit.
I don't choose to believe or not to believe. It's not a choice.
IF there are gods, that doesn't mean there's life after death. IF there's life after death, that doesn't mean there are gods.

I disagree. Atheists believe that we cease to exist when we die, but in general that does nothing to allay fears of death. I am an atheist, and I most certainly do not want to cease to exist when I die. I would absolutely love to get to continue to exist in a supernatural paradise after I die, as described by christianity. But I realize that just because I really really want something doesn't mean that it's actually possible or real. The theist world view is definitely much more pleasant than the atheist world view. Sadly, I can't make myself believe something that seems absurd to me simply because it's pleasant.

I am an atheist & I don't believe we cease to exist.
The christian view is extremely unpleasant. The vast majority suffer horribly for eternity while few enjoy "paradise".
1111

 

[swarm]

There is no paradise which can make up for hell.

 

[greenberg]

IF there are gods, that doesn't mean there's life after death.

IF there's life after death, that doesn't mean there are gods.

Do justify each point.

 

[swarm]

swarm you don't think the sudden nearness of death could seriously derail your stability in life?

Death is never more than a heartbeat away. It doesn't derail my stability.

I guess he was assuming that you lead a somewhat normal life with friends, relationships, material earnings, etc

I do. What about it?

IOW any personality that has the audacity to discipline you is stupid, mean, petty, etc?

Being damned to hell for eternity is not being “disciplined.” It is the action of a petty evil being which only petty evil beings would bother to worship.

I don't know what religious discipline you have in mind that suggest that the next life exists independent of how one acts in this life ....

You should broaden your horizons. Since you are a xtian, start with the universalists. Where you see hell, they see universal salvation, yes even Hilter. Tell me Abraham. Would you really sacrifice your child to an evil god?

why?

Because you are wrong.

 

[Leo Volont]

So much FAILURE of imagination.

Consider that Religious 'Eternity' consists of the LAST MOMENT OF REFLECTION before the mind quits. Subjectively, for the person experiencing this LAST MOMENT, does it END, or does that LAST MOMENT hang in suspension, hang in TIME?

This is not just a philosophical congesture. Talk to people about Documented Near Death Experiences. Clearly, Death is not nothing. Something is happening. And these are NEAR DEATH. the BIG PERMANENT DEATHs might be a leap even beyond that.

well this will offend everyone equally but nither senario has any evidence behind it. In fact from a psychological perspective they are exactly the same.

Basically there are 3 possable senarios we know about (all others are just combinations of these)

1) there is nothing after death
2) there is something good after death
3) there is something bad after death

Now as we are all afraid of death we are atracted to the choice which best alays our fears. For athiests its the first, not many people pick door number 3 so most thiests pick door number 2 (for themselves anyway)

So in reality none of you who post here are doing anything other than making up fantasies to quite your fears of what hapens next

The only people who move past this are the apathetic agnostics who just dont give a shit what happens next and concentrate on what happens NOW.

 

[greenberg]

Since you are a xtian

Holy smokes!

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
IF there are gods, that doesn't mean there's life after death.

IF there's life after death, that doesn't mean there are gods.

Do justify each point.

WTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's no justifying to it.
Those who assume existence of gods to automatically mean there's life after death & vice versa are the 1s who should justify it. They can't.
I'm NOT making assumptions. I'm pointing them out.
1111

 

[alexb123]

The Psychology of religion is about as simple as it gets.

Religious people are prone to making Type two errors!

 

[lightgigantic]

swarm

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
swarm you don't think the sudden nearness of death could seriously derail your stability in life?
”
Death is never more than a heartbeat away. It doesn't derail my stability.

You like watching movies I take it ...

“
I guess he was assuming that you lead a somewhat normal life with friends, relationships, material earnings, etc
”
I do. What about it?

by your own admission, its all fro nothing

“
IOW any personality that has the audacity to discipline you is stupid, mean, petty, etc?
”
Being damned to hell for eternity is not being “disciplined.”

hence the suggestion that hell is not eternal .... merely an unpleasant place to visit temporarily

It is the action of a petty evil being which only petty evil beings would bother to worship.

actually I would agree with that, if one was working with the assumption that hell is eternal

“
I don't know what religious discipline you have in mind that suggest that the next life exists independent of how one acts in this life ....
”
You should broaden your horizons. Since you are a xtian, start with the universalists. Where you see hell, they see universal salvation, yes even Hilter. Tell me Abraham. Would you really sacrifice your child to an evil god?

I'm a christian?

“
why?
”
Because you are wrong.

you should really broaden your horizons and perhaps for a moment operate out of theistic paradigms that aren't christian .... might lend a bit of credibility to your endeavours to tar theists with the same big brush

 

[swarm]

You like watching movies I take it ...

I rarely watch movies and don't watch broadcast or cable tv. What of it?

If you were making a subtle cultural reference I indubitably missed it.

by your own admission, its all fro nothing

I made no such admission.

hence the suggestion that hell is not eternal .... merely an unpleasant place to visit temporarily

Why bother imagining such fantasies at all?

you should really broaden your horizons and perhaps for a moment operate out of theistic paradigms that aren't christian .... might lend a bit of credibility to your endeavours to tar theists with the same big brush

If you aren't a xtian that's fine by me. It doesn't make your position as a theist less ridiculous though.

 

[lightgigantic]

swarm

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
You like watching movies I take it ...
”
I rarely watch movies and don't watch broadcast or cable tv. What of it?

If you were making a subtle cultural reference I indubitably missed it.

your proclamation about being bold in the face of death rings of a person who's experience of near death experiences is made up by hollywood.

“
by your own admission, its all fro nothing
”
I made no such admission.

Two reasons....the first is that it is all over, oblivion, nothing more, done, finished.
”
And this is bad how?
you don't anticipate any distress at the inevitable demise of friends, family, society, etc etc

“
hence the suggestion that hell is not eternal .... merely an unpleasant place to visit temporarily
”
Why bother imagining such fantasies at all?

I place the same suggestion to you

“

you should really broaden your horizons and perhaps for a moment operate out of theistic paradigms that aren't christian .... might lend a bit of credibility to your endeavours to tar theists with the same big brush
”
If you aren't a xtian that's fine by me. It doesn't make your position as a theist less ridiculous though.

As an atheist, I am sure you are not phased about being diametrically opposed to theists.

What makes me wonder, however, is why you expect that a theist has concerns about being diametrically opposed to an atheist ....

 

[swarm]

swarm

your proclamation about being bold in the face of death rings of a person who's experience of near death experiences is made up by hollywood.

Sorry I came by it the old fashioned way.

you don't anticipate any distress at the inevitable demise of friends, family, society, etc etc

I'm not unfamiliar with the actual demise of friends, family, etc.

I lost a best friend to cancer a while back. My mom just died in September. My sweety's aunt is dying of advanced cirhosis of the liver (as in months to live) and my brother-in-law was just in a distillery explosion with 3rd degree burns over 45% of his body. I'm sympathis for each of their personal tragedies and am there for them and their families to the extent I can be. I grieve for my loss and continue to live my life. Life has both sorrow and joy. Did you miss the memo?

Anticipitory distress is BS. I see no reason for it and don't bother about it.

I place the same suggestion to you

I don't bother imagining them and recommend the same to you.

As an atheist, I am sure you are not phased about being diametrically opposed to theists.

I'm no more an atheist than I'm an a-unicornist. I'm not diametrically opposed to theists. I simply refuse to allow that you can create gods by fiat.

 

[lightgigantic]

swarm

your proclamation about being bold in the face of death rings of a person who's experience of near death experiences is made up by hollywood.
”
Sorry I came by it the old fashioned way.

assuming that you are still living, I can't fathom what you mean

“
you don't anticipate any distress at the inevitable demise of friends, family, society, etc etc
”
I'm not unfamiliar with the actual demise of friends, family, etc.

who isn't?
death visits everyone equally

I lost a best friend to cancer a while back. My mom just died in September. My sweety's aunt is dying of advanced cirhosis of the liver (as in months to live) and my brother-in-law was just in a distillery explosion with 3rd degree burns over 45% of his body. I'm sympathis for each of their personal tragedies and am there for them and their families to the extent I can be. I grieve for my loss and continue to live my life. Life has both sorrow and joy. Did you miss the memo?

Anticipitory distress is BS. I see no reason for it and don't bother about it.

Anticipating distress is intelligence ... kind of like the old addage "if you don't plan you are planning for failure"

“
I place the same suggestion to you
”
I don't bother imagining them and recommend the same to you.

welcome to diametrical opposition
“

As an atheist, I am sure you are not phased about being diametrically opposed to theists.
”
I'm no more an atheist than I'm an a-unicornist. I'm not diametrically opposed to theists. I simply refuse to allow that you can create gods by fiat.

yet you still remain diametrically opposed ....
:shrug:

 

[swarm]

assuming that you are still living, I can't fathom what you mean

It not that mysterious. I've faced death a few times.

Anticipating distress is intelligence

No, it is merely wasted time needlessly suffering over nothing.

yet you still remain diametrically opposed ....

Your mindlessly chanting it does not make it so.

 

[lightgigantic]

swarm

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
assuming that you are still living, I can't fathom what you mean
”
It not that mysterious. I've faced death a few times.

yet you still chose life?
how uncanny ....

“
Anticipating distress is intelligence
”
No, it is merely wasted time needlessly suffering over nothing.

so its more a belief that there is no solution?

“
yet you still remain diametrically opposed ....
”
Your mindlessly chanting it does not make it so.

your schismatic disagreement in one post and blindness to recognize the schism in the next makes me wonder whats exactly in your mind ....