My apologies, I misread your post and thought you had stated the same as kx000, he said "Atheism is uneducated or a lie." which is really what I was asking that question too.
I hope he can give a better answer than "the universe."
Reasons not to believe in God
- Thread starter Magical Realist
- Start date
I hope he can give a better answer than "the universe."
kx000
Valued Senior Member
What question? We do not believe conflicting things you and I, its not possible. Given my logic, imagination, and thought I bunk you. Faith natures with those before mentioned. Atheist do NOT believe in a God they don't even define.
Who are the famous atheist of the board? Atheism is stupid and I will prove it.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
I represent the universe being the top of the food chain in my emotional estate. Default is still, and our position is of Faith.
Jesus told me.
The default position of the universe which is faithful, hoped, good, wise, tolerant, and down right proper is to be in love. Have a good night.
Ah but we do.kx000akagerry said:
So far you haven't shown any logic. However you've shown imagination, in abundance. the subjective cannot bunk the objective, now that isn't possible.kx000akagerry said:
??????? Obviously, some of your logic.kx000akagerry said:
Fixed it for you.kx000akagerry said:
Well it would be interesting to see that, as atheism is simply the lack of belief in god/gods, it is not so much something you are, but it is something you are from a theistic position.kx000akagerry said:
?????? More of your logic. Mmmmm!kx000akagerry said:
Mmmmm! Not making any sense, would you like to go for a second try.kx000akagerry said:
Sorry not an answer, try again. Though it is your kind of logical answer, so we leave it there.kx000akagerry said:
Because it sounds like I'm talking to a ten year old, I was going to say five year old, but they can string a sentence together better than you.
But not necessarily write a sentence better.
However given the gibberish you are posting. It is like talking to a five year old.
:roflmao:
I will believe....
John 14:6
You have no ideas of your own?
I will believe....
John 14:6
And....
Hebrews 11:1
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The OP made it clear the danger, even though it is an extreme case. I fear my wife (Christian) and ex-Pastor. They believe they know God's will. They trust that what they feel they are led to believe is the will of God. This is dangerous to abandon reason for the sake of God, but that is seen as a courage, righteous, and true act to follow God's leading in the face of doubt. And if you don't even recognize and become insensitive to your reason and listen only to "the voice inside" you are playing with fire. Sure, the average person might not tip over to the extreme. I think it is probably a remote case, but the danger is still very real.
This is why I believe if there is a God, the scriptures are not 100% right. They may be accurate, but they have misinterpreted falsehood or they must not be interpreted and just used as guidelines. I think a person who believes should seek answers from the source, not a book. And do so with good reasoning and moral standards.
This is why I believe if there is a God, the scriptures are not 100% right. They may be accurate, but they have misinterpreted falsehood or they must not be interpreted and just used as guidelines. I think a person who believes should seek answers from the source, not a book. And do so with good reasoning and moral standards.
Can you elaborate on this a bit?
See below -
Suppose those people who claim to know God's will then do such things as kill, rape and pillage, or any other thing that some people find harmful or hurtful.
People sometimes do such things as kill, rape and pillage, or any other thing that some people find harmful or hurtful, anyway.
Why is it an added problem, or a danger or a threat when those things are done by people who claim to know the will of God?
I'm not saying that it isn't; I'd just like to look into it all in more detail.
Steven Weinberg once said, "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Then they aren't good people to begin with; or their goodness is so weak that it doesn't deserve to be called goodness.
Doesn't strike you in the least bit as biased ???? ... or does he have something equally wonderful to say about what it requires for evil people to do good things ....
I think many people expect that those who claim to believe in or know God, would be good people -- "good" by a human standard of goodness.
It's not clear though how that expectation is justified.
Why should those who claim to believe in or know God, care about those who don't?
It sure would be nice if they would. But there seems to be no justification for that expectation.
Nearly forgot about this fellow... which is something I'd imagine he has to deal with fairly often.
I mean if you think about it, if an atheist feels he should voice an opinion, it's usually a response.
You just said it yourself... scratch the surface. Now why do that? Ask an opinion of someone, and he will generally give you one. Point being, it's you doing the scratching.
Do you do that a lot? And then come on here talking about how atheists always have to argue about why they don't believe? Party trick, or is it something you just do while you're waiting for a bus?
Problem with people like you, is that you think your beliefs are so important to everyone else. It never seems to occur to you that, for the most part, if you state a belief and someone holds an opposite belief, they will feel inclined to respond.
Has it never occurred to you that if people like you stopped talking about god, very few actually would? Ever?
That, of course, was a rhetorical question.
Not a single person has ever made any kind of argument giving me even the faintest reason why I should believe them. As a result, I really don't bother thinking about it very often at all... the exception being when someone else is making me think about it.
This is something you don't seem to be able to grasp.
Oh, and bear in mind... I don't ever remember having to close the door in the face of an atheist because he knocked wanting to give me a tract outlining his arguments for the non-existence of god.
Now, if I were to say that one had, I'd imagine you'd immediately think I invited him in for tea and a chat.
Because you think it's a matter of being on one side or the other.
Tell me. Do you use those little smiley faces because you want others to think you're confident in your position, or because you want me to think you're actually laughing?
The first is a little desperate. The second is... well, actually, that's a little desperate, as well.
Uhhh... what?and that would be because the statement would be made in a manner that is not dependent on any other over-arching principle that could make it lesser than being anything else other than "objective" ... or would it?
You'll find most don't really bother.
I mean if you think about it, if an atheist feels he should voice an opinion, it's usually a response.
You just said it yourself... scratch the surface. Now why do that? Ask an opinion of someone, and he will generally give you one. Point being, it's you doing the scratching.
Do you do that a lot? And then come on here talking about how atheists always have to argue about why they don't believe? Party trick, or is it something you just do while you're waiting for a bus?
Problem with people like you, is that you think your beliefs are so important to everyone else. It never seems to occur to you that, for the most part, if you state a belief and someone holds an opposite belief, they will feel inclined to respond.
Has it never occurred to you that if people like you stopped talking about god, very few actually would? Ever?
That, of course, was a rhetorical question.
Actually, no I don't. I close the door on them because I have better things to do. It's really quite simple, you know.So you don't call them "silly" or slam the door in their face because you have "reasons" to think what they are on about is fluff, eh?
Not a single person has ever made any kind of argument giving me even the faintest reason why I should believe them. As a result, I really don't bother thinking about it very often at all... the exception being when someone else is making me think about it.
This is something you don't seem to be able to grasp.
Oh, and bear in mind... I don't ever remember having to close the door in the face of an atheist because he knocked wanting to give me a tract outlining his arguments for the non-existence of god.
Now, if I were to say that one had, I'd imagine you'd immediately think I invited him in for tea and a chat.
Because you think it's a matter of being on one side or the other.
Tell me. Do you use those little smiley faces because you want others to think you're confident in your position, or because you want me to think you're actually laughing?
The first is a little desperate. The second is... well, actually, that's a little desperate, as well.
I think to say that only bad people do bad things in religion's name is to ignore the fact that many of these bad things done in religion's name are virtually exclusive to religion, such as suicide bombing and genital mutilation. Compare the treatment of women in Iran to any other place in the world, or the treatment of gays in places where religious authority still has a foothold to their treatment in secular societies. So by your count we're supposed to believe that this exclusivity (or virtual exclusivity) is a coincidence?
You also completely discount the power that religion has over many people. Once someone believes they are acting in God's interests, acting on God's behalf, then any action is possible. As we've seen.
Why should it strike me as biased? Because it's a negative opinion of religion?
How fragile your worldview must be if anything said in opposition to it must have some ulterior motive. It shouldn't surprise me that faith requires delusion, but that's a particularly blatant one right there.
I think that's a very western--perhaps even a very American--sentiment, and attributable to the perceived niceness of certain religious groups. The Mormons, for example, are purported to be painfully nice people. That's probably where these notions of "religious = good" comes from. I think if you live in Bosnia or Iran or several other places on the globe, you're much less likely to believe such a thing.
No.
I mean the author concedes that the bible can influence people ... yet at the same time concedes that its only the populations of evil people intent on doing evil that are remaining uniform ... clearly some sort of bias is requires to float these ideas simultaneously
So you don't think someone who is influenced not to kill another or not to steal or not to have sex with someone else's wife is not influenced in a "good" manner?
he made a statement about good people doing evil ... just curious about how the other half of the population fits into the world view of such a person
Not sure if you are trying to play atheism as being such a brilliant, perfect and uniform world view that its demeaning to discuss it as possessing inherent values or if the notion of conflicting value systems taking the form of a discussion of responses is alien to you.
So you are trying to tell us your sliding scale of "more valued activities" isn't driven by reason ... or are you now willing to concede that "you have your reasons"
never heard of Dawkins et al?
Or do you think its a coincidence that many of your ideas are identical to his/theirs?
Perhaps I should try for an over-bearing condescending attitude of conceit because it seems to work for you ... no wait ... it doesn't work.
:shrug:
He makes no such concession. Should I quote it again?
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
That wasn't the point. The point was how religion has the singular quality of being able to make good people do bad things. This clearly outweighs its ability to prevent bad people from doing bad things, which is negligible. We have ample evidence that religion doesn't really make anyone behave better.