Read the appalling Chapter 31 of the Book of Numbers

Alan McDougall

Alan McDougall
Registered Senior Member
Alan McDougall 14/7/2007

1) Verse: 2 the Lord said to Moses take vengeance on the Midianites. In direct contrast, Jesus said, forgive those who hate you and despitefully use you. It is easy to love those that love you, but I say love those that hate you. Vengeance is mine said the lord I will recompense. However, here God appears to go against his own word and commands Moses to take vengeance.

2) Verses: 3- 6 Make war and kill said the lord. This is a direct contradiction to Gods own commandment. Thou shalt not kill. Jesus said if a man strikes you on the one cheek turn and offer him the other and not to violence.

3) Verses: 6-13 here the armies of Israel go out and destroy, spoil, burn and steal and plunder on Gods command. In addition, they slaughter all the adult males however; this is not sufficient bloodletting slaughter to please Moses or God as we read from verse 14.

In contrast, Jesus said he that lives by the sword would die by the sword. The soldiers apparently somewhat kinder and merciful than Moses spared the woman and children much to Mosses disappointment and anger

4) Verse: 14 Moses was wroth (angry) with the officers. Why? Because they had not slaughtered THE WHOLE LOT, WOMAN, CHILDREN, like they had done to the adult males.

So what is sweet kind merciful Moses proposal? Verse: 15, He says now murder all the “little boys”. In ABSOLUTE contrast Jesus said blessed are the little children for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

For goodness sake is this the same merciful loving God depicted by Jesus. No this horrific story does not end yet. Moses goes on saying.” Kill all the woman” except those that have not had "sex with a man". How on earth in those remote primitive days were the soldiers to know which woman was a virgin and which were not?.

There was definitely no gynecologist way back in 300O B.C. WERE THERE? So to me they must on Moses command raped all the woman first and then murdered those who were not virgins. Why was it necessary to rape them all? Because a woman’s age does not necessarily indicate whether a woman is a virgin or not.

5) Now if any learned rational bible scholar can tell me that this is the same father God that is the same yesterday tomorrow and forever, I am all eyes and ears waiting for a logical explanation. You know if one takes out the title God and Moses and replaces them with Hitler and Rudolf Hess, no one would question that it was the work of the evil Hitler regime. Would they?
6) Alan McDougall 13/7/2007
 
Is YAHWEH the same being that Jesus called his loving father in Heaven

I used the word Demiurge because I couldn't resist. And because that is apparently what some early Gnostic sects believe YHWH was: a base, imperfect, materialistic deity.

Something like that.

They believe Christ or the God he represented was the highest form of creation.

Going off memory though.
 
Alan McDougall 14/7/2007
However, here God appears to go against his own word and commands Moses to take vengeance.

This is a direct contradiction to Gods own commandment.

In addition, they slaughter all the adult males...

No this horrific story does not end yet. Moses goes on saying.” Kill all the woman” except those that have not had "sex with a man".

So to me they must on Moses command raped all the woman first and then murdered those who were not virgins.

Now if any learned rational bible scholar can tell me that this is the same father God that is the same yesterday tomorrow and forever, I am all eyes and ears waiting for a logical explanation.

Are you saying you never read this before, that this is the first time you actually began to understand the appalling nature of the bible? There is much, much more in the bible just like it.

It goes on to reveal the appalling nature of YOUR god, the one YOU worship, love and obey. Are you not shamed and sickened with your belief system? You should be.
 
It goes on to reveal the appalling nature of YOUR god, the one YOU worship, love and obey. Are you not shamed and sickened with your belief system? You should be.

you sound just like a baptist preacher. :itold: it's uncanny.
 
Are you saying you never read this before, that this is the first time you actually began to understand the appalling nature of the bible? There is much, much more in the bible just like it.

It goes on to reveal the appalling nature of YOUR god, the one YOU worship, love and obey. Are you not shamed and sickened with your belief system? You should be.

What on earth makes you think I worship the entity called YHWH, my belief system is absolutely unique to me and the god of my understanding is not the god of Numbers 31
 
The concept of God changes with the culture that created it. Jesus was rather revolutionary (but the revolution must not stop with him).
 
What on earth makes you think I worship the entity called YHWH, my belief system is absolutely unique to me and the god of my understanding is not the god of Numbers 31

You believers are hilarious. You haven't even read the scriptures you believe to be the ultimate word of your god.

Cherry picking the bible makes it so easy, eh Alan?
 
I have to agree with (Q) here. The book of Numbers is a part of the Torah. Jesus spoke often of his father as the God of the Jews; his God was the God of the Torah, the God of Moses and of Numbers.

If you are a follower of Jesus, then either your God is Jesus' God, or you are deceiving yourself as to what it is that you believe.

Religion doesn't have to adhere to original texts, but if those texts are used as a source, then the whole source must be treated with equal weight. Anyone can make up their own belief system, but they need to be honest with themselves about how they choose to select their source material.
 
You believers are hilarious. You haven't even read the scriptures you believe to be the ultimate word of your god.

Cherry picking the bible makes it so easy, eh Alan?

He's not necessarily a Christian.
 
You believers are hilarious. You haven't even read the scriptures you believe to be the ultimate word of your god.

Cherry picking the bible makes it so easy, eh Alan?

Unfortunately one has to cherry pick the bible because it is impossible to isolate its truths from its nonsense.

By the way I do not own any god
 
Unfortunately one has to cherry pick the bible because it is impossible to isolate its truths from its nonsense.
If it's impossible to to isolate the truth from the nonsense then what's the point of attempting to do so?
And how do YOU distinguish "truth" from "nonsense" in the bible?
Surely, if you, personally, have decided that it is not the inerrant word of god you have in fact denied the basic premise of the book altogether.
IOW you're being dishonest by using any of it at all.
 
I believe if Numbers was a true reflection of what happened then it was Moses doing his own thing and hiding his own brutality behind a supposed command of God
 
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