Rationality versus religion
- Thread starter Skeptical
- Start date
ok then, reference the quote where i said that heaven and hell don't exist.
you're babbling about how my beliefs don't fit in your christian box, and displaying your ignorance of christianity while attempting to speak for me. and it's irritating.
you said it was a possibility, the bible states it is a fact.
it's not my christian box and i'm not the one who is ignorant of christianity.
that's even more intellectual dishonesty. would jesus be proud of you? is that good morals to lie and make up more lies on top of it? is that condoned by your god as long as it's about religion?
birch,
do me a favor and get over yourself enough to listen to what i'm saying. these are my thoughts on heaven and hell. i've never been to heaven (that i recall), and i've never been to hell (that i recall). if heaven and hell are places that exist in a spiritual realm, then i do not remember ever being there. that said, i am inclined to believe what it says in the bible about heaven and hell, because of other things that i have experienced, and i remember very well.
i'm also inclined to believe in heaven and hell because of the duality i see in nature, and the condition of the human race, and what i see as contributing to that. i like to think in terms of parallel universes with a given set of natural laws, and in which the addition or alteration of one action, one choice, or even one thought, could create an entirely unique existence over time.
now consider the premise i believe, and have expressed in other threads, that there is a right answer. a right choice, a right thought, according to given laws, and according to the greater good. apply that premise and you'll end up with a spectrum of possibilities, and the extreme opposites would be heaven and hell. that's actually the basis for the implied segregation i'm talking about in the communion thread.
from what i know, if i had to guess, i would guess that the spiritual realm probably isn't all that different from how it is here, in that what you and everyone around you, want, and what you choose, and what you do, in large part determines your quality of life.
do me a favor and get over yourself enough to listen to what i'm saying. these are my thoughts on heaven and hell. i've never been to heaven (that i recall), and i've never been to hell (that i recall). if heaven and hell are places that exist in a spiritual realm, then i do not remember ever being there. that said, i am inclined to believe what it says in the bible about heaven and hell, because of other things that i have experienced, and i remember very well.
i'm also inclined to believe in heaven and hell because of the duality i see in nature, and the condition of the human race, and what i see as contributing to that. i like to think in terms of parallel universes with a given set of natural laws, and in which the addition or alteration of one action, one choice, or even one thought, could create an entirely unique existence over time.
now consider the premise i believe, and have expressed in other threads, that there is a right answer. a right choice, a right thought, according to given laws, and according to the greater good. apply that premise and you'll end up with a spectrum of possibilities, and the extreme opposites would be heaven and hell. that's actually the basis for the implied segregation i'm talking about in the communion thread.
from what i know, if i had to guess, i would guess that the spiritual realm probably isn't all that different from how it is here, in that what you and everyone around you, want, and what you choose, and what you do, in large part determines your quality of life.
again, something HAS to be a possibility, in order for it ever to be a fact.
i know jesus, and he loves me very much, and i him, and i would not lie about him, and he knows that.
To Lori
Let me return this to the topic of rationality.
I have said that rationality is about recognising what is real. As a science buff, I would suggest that, to be rational, you have to base your belief system on evidence that would pass muster as good science.
Do you think that the evidence you base your religious beliefs on meets this standard? Why? Do you think your beliefs are rational, and why?
Let me return this to the topic of rationality.
I have said that rationality is about recognising what is real. As a science buff, I would suggest that, to be rational, you have to base your belief system on evidence that would pass muster as good science.
Do you think that the evidence you base your religious beliefs on meets this standard? Why? Do you think your beliefs are rational, and why?
that is not christianity. that's your own belief/views.
first of all,
relevant music break time. these guys share my thoughts on hell pretty well, i think. we laugh and cry in it's face. did you know that jesus is said to have the key to hell? had to go through it to get it don't you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8liy0pDq5Y
relevant music break time. these guys share my thoughts on hell pretty well, i think. we laugh and cry in it's face. did you know that jesus is said to have the key to hell? had to go through it to get it don't you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8liy0pDq5Y
of course i think they're rational. they're based on my experience and understanding and i am a very intellectually capable person, and i have demonstrated that to society's standards.
the evidence i have gotten came from god itself and not from another person. it's based in extremely personal experience that's not meant for anyone else, but it certainly got my attention like nothing else, and no one else could.
here's an analogy of how i feel about this...
say god is a microscopic particle that can only be seen through a microscope, and atheists are not willing to look through a microscope to see it. they say they only believe in things that they can see with their naked eye. i was willing to look into the microscope and they are not, and they tell me what i saw was a hallucination.
that is what my experience and the holy spirit has inclined. for all of your apparent in-depth knowledge of scripture, why don't you reference some in support of your argument here?
heh, telling me to do the work. why don't you as you are the christian and don't be so lazy. what scripture have you used in all your myriad posts to back up anything you've written? nada. you are the one who wants your religion/god taken seriously. is the bible not your source anymore?
Oh how sweet. to be in love with an invisible spirit.....NOT!
Is love Rational? Is Love a Religion?
This!
Lori
Are you suggesting that I am an unbeliever because I choose to ignore religion?
I would say that I have given religion, or God if you prefer, every chance to demonstrate its reality. It is not that I refuse to 'look down the microscope'. I see no such microscope. I see no such evidence. If your analogy was correct, which I seriously doubt, you would, in fact, be calling me blind, since I simply cannot see the things you say are there.
In my situation, I would be irrational to have religious belief, since I have seen no credible evidence. I do not refuse to accept evidence. As far as I am concerned, it is simply not there.
I am also aware that many of the religious experiences that people like you have had, can also be induced by drugs, meditation, starvation, hypoxia, or blunt trauma to the head. So why should I accept that your stated experience is anything other than abnormal brain activity?
Are you suggesting that I am an unbeliever because I choose to ignore religion?
I would say that I have given religion, or God if you prefer, every chance to demonstrate its reality. It is not that I refuse to 'look down the microscope'. I see no such microscope. I see no such evidence. If your analogy was correct, which I seriously doubt, you would, in fact, be calling me blind, since I simply cannot see the things you say are there.
In my situation, I would be irrational to have religious belief, since I have seen no credible evidence. I do not refuse to accept evidence. As far as I am concerned, it is simply not there.
I am also aware that many of the religious experiences that people like you have had, can also be induced by drugs, meditation, starvation, hypoxia, or blunt trauma to the head. So why should I accept that your stated experience is anything other than abnormal brain activity?
the holy spirit and my own experience is my source, as i've stated, and the source has confirmed to me much of what it says in the bible, and has contradicted nothing that is in the bible. the bible is common knowledge and easily accessible, so if you contend that what i'm saying isn't scriptural, then prove it.
Oh how sweet. to be in love with an invisible spirit.....NOT!
Is love Rational? Is Love a Religion?
love is rational sometimes. when it's a valuation, a perception, and a behavior that is based in truth, as opposed to some fickle emotion or biological urge that's known to come and go with the wind.
in my case there was no evidence of such things being influential. i admire your stance regarding an open mind and regarding evidence. imo, those are required to form any true belief about such things.
i refuse to believe that i'm special in regards to this evidence. i believe it's always available to anyone. i demanded it. i was sincere. i knocked, and my knock was answered. nothing occurred within any timeframe or boundaries that i attempted to place on it.
in the meantime, as the AA people say, sweep your side of the street. make sure you're ready and willing for whatever might come your way.
I've knocked sincerely... nobody was home.
I do not reject your experience, whatever it was. But I have not had it.
the thing is...and this is nothing personal gmilam, but some could have experienced what i have and checked themselves into a mental hospital and demanded drugs. it really is my opinion, based on my own experience, that what you are willing to deal with intellectually, emotionally, and consequentially is a critical factor, and god does not act in futility.
all of my experience with god involves introspection. the only way i can understand what is going on around me, and understand god, is to understand myself. so i can assuredly advise that it wouldn't hurt to start there...with a good look in the mirror.
No personal offense taken. I have often wondered, if there are people who have "extrasensory" senses - i.e - psychic or whatever... might they think they were crazy? And they would almost certainly be considered "ecentric", at the least, by others. Same with religious experience.
OTOH, most people I have known who have had a deep religious experience were at a very low point in their life... Drugs, alcohol, gambling, whatever... Their life was out of control.
I have never been there either.