Ram Jet and Global Warming - is the physics similar?

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Robittybob1

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Ram Jet and Gobal Warming - is the physics similar?

You might think for a moment that is a silly question but I want to explore the science of both and see if there is a common aspect for both use energy to make gas molecules go faster.

How does the simplest ram jet work?
How does infra red radiation (IR) heat or add kinetic energy to a gas molecule?
Is there a similarity?
Can this similarity be used to explain why the atmospheres on other planets are circling so fast?

These are the questions I want this thread to answer. If by using logic and research we can come to a conclusion we will then get someone to experimentally check the result. :)
 
This has the making of a complete and utter train wreck.
 
origin said:
This has the making of a complete and utter train wreck.
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I was involved in a real life train wreck, so I know what you mean. I will do what is required to keep the wheels of science on track.

Why won't a ram jet work if it is not moving forward? :)

The atmosphere of Jupiter is moving forward as well, and even faster than the center of the planet moves. That must mean whatever powers the atmosphere also drives the planet spin rate.
 
Tell me what you know regarding Jupiter's atmosphere and why it spins so fast?
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Jupiter's atmosphere is primarily hydrogen and helium, in the primordial ratio, and clouds of ammonia.

Jupiter radiates more heat than it receives from the sun, and this heat, the residual heat from formation, is thought to drive the atmospheric movement via convection, just as the winds on earth are driven. Since the gravity is so much higher, and the atmosphere so much lighter (molecularly), and the interior radiated heat is so high, the winds are so violent.
 
Robittybob1 said:
Why won't a ram jet work if it is not moving forward? :)
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Putting forth a hypothesis based on a process, then asking how the process works.

See a problem there?


Robittybob1 said:
The atmosphere of Jupiter is moving forward as well, and even faster than the center of the planet moves. That must mean whatever powers the atmosphere also drives the planet spin rate.
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Since you confess to not understanding how a ramjet works, how are you managing to draw analogies?

I want to explore the science of both...
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By all means you should. That would usually precede forming hypotheses...
 
AlexG said:
Jupiter's atmosphere is primarily hydrogen and helium, in the primordial ratio, and clouds of ammonia.

Jupiter radiates more heat than it receives from the sun, and this heat, the residual heat from formation, is thought to drive the atmospheric movement via convection, just as the winds on earth are driven. Since the gravity is so much higher, and the atmosphere so much lighter (molecularly), and the interior radiated heat is so high, the winds are so violent.
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OK gravitational collapse causing a compression of the core - releases heat energy.
So the photons of that will be multi-directional, but conservation of inertia would mean the core could spin faster as it collapses. If that happened or was the main driver the wind would be slower than the center not the other way around.
I agree the stormy atmosphere would be a result, but that too should not cause a net atmospheric rotation.

The surface of Jupiter is moving at more than 45,000 km/h. What happens to the incident solar radiation? Which molecules absorb the energy and which direction do they go? That is where the ram jet principle will be useful.
Look at the ram jet - let's understand how the molecules in the ram jet speed up predominantly with a velocity to the rear (unidirectional). :)
 
DaveC426913 said:
Putting forth a hypothesis based on a process, then asking how the process works.

See a problem there?



Since you confess to not understanding how a ramjet works, how are you managing to draw analogies?

By all means you should. That would usually precede forming hypotheses...
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I know what you mean Dave but for the benefit of all who read this forum I wanted to spell it out very simply so that we are all reading from the same page. I want you to imagine the simplest ram jet as a simple tube like a pipe 300mm in diameter and 2 meters long with a fan exterior to it driving air through it.

And a source of heating placed midway in the draught going through it.

Will there be the beginnings of the ram jet principle?

Will there be more gases (volume and strength of wind) leaving the exhaust end than before the heating source was fired up?
 
Robittybob1 said:
Sorry we are talking of surface velocity at the equatorial regions. Like I think it is 1000 km/h for Earth.
Spinning rotation not the oribital speed. :)
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What does the rotation of Jupiter as a whole have to do with ramjets? Ramjets are an enclosed space. Large volume of air compressed into a small volume. Jupiter is not an enclosed space.
 
DaveC426913 said:
I was afraid you meant that. Jupiter's surface is not moving at 45,000 km/h. where do you get your facts from?
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It was a quote we were using the other day. (I'll post it soon) It is not the extreme outer atmosphere but at a defined depth. I have feeling it is hard to talk about surfaces on Jupiter as the atmosphere it just gets gradually denser till it forms a liquid. There is no specific boundary from my understanding. :)
 
DaveC426913 said:
What does the rotation of Jupiter as a whole have to do with ramjets? Ramjets are an enclosed space. Large volume of air compressed into a small volume. Jupiter is not an enclosed space.
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Well yes, ram jets for ease of manufacture are enclosed but what would happen if someone did try and build one that "reached to the sky" so to speak. :) Scale it up, how big could it get? The global warming experiments are performed in tubes but then we relate the principles discovered to the whole atmosphere don't we? :)
 
Robittybob1 said:
It was a quote we were using the other day. (I'll post it soon) It is not the extreme outer atmosphere but at a defined depth. I have feeling it is hard to talk about surfaces on Jupiter as the atmosphere it just gets gradually denser till it forms a liquid. There is no specific boundary from my understanding. :)
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Never mind. Retracted.

Jupiter's circumference is 445,000km and its day is 10 hours. Thus, 44,500km/h.
 
Robittybob1 said:
Well yes, ram jets for ease of manufacture are enclosed
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Wrong. A ramjet works because it is enclosed. Atmospheres do not do this.

Again, it would behoove you to understand the basic principles of a process before building hypotheses on it. Do you not see a problem with this?
 
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