Racist?

[Anti-Flag]

The question was whether a white person in the United States could use the word "nigger" in reference to a black person without expressing inherent racial bigotry.

The answer is no. Come back in fifty years, maybe the answer will be yes.

Actually they can do so without expressing racial bigotry, it just won't be interpreted as such. It was more a question of why that should be acceptable on the basis of skin colour. Perhaps it's mostly due to my youthful innocence but when I hear the word nigger all I think of is black person, same as the word coloured. The past offence attached to such racial words for me should only be attached when the person is a racist as the vast majority of people were at the time of the word being invented. If all the meaning is to me is 'black person' then it's merely a description, which can't be denied.
This works the same with descriptions of white people like cracker or honkey, or being refered to as a ghost etc. Yes, I am white, your description of me is therefore accurate, so how is this offensive unless a person doesn't like being white?
What gets me is that this is supposed to be the equivalent offensive term, but most blacks feel it's fine to use it, even if it is just in a friendly way, but don't ever say nigger.
I just wish there was a way of educating people that words aren't racist it's the people behind them and the context they use them in.

 

[lucifers angel]

what is racisim, i know what it means, but i am welsh and we are subject to welsh jokes and people calling us all sorts of names, and in general being nasty, and all this comes from the english, so surely thats racism aswell?

my daughter went to school and this boy kept calling her a sheep shagger and when i spoke to the school and pointed out that i thought it was racist i was told not to be silly, now my point is if a white person calls a black person a nigger there is an outcry so why dosnt it cut both ways?

 

[Baron Max]

..., now my point is if a white person calls a black person a nigger there is an outcry so why dosnt it cut both ways?

It's because blacks are so overly sensitive and overly emotional.

As far as I can tell, no other "race" of people is so overly sensitive about racism. Why that is, I'm not sure, but my guess is that someone will come up with an excuse for the blacks ...they always do!

Baron Max

 

[Pandaemoni]

The difference between a white person calling a black person "n*****" and a black person calling another black person the same thing is easy to understand. So easy, that I don't understand why people feign not understanding it.

Look, my brother and I have a very competitive relationship. Frequently, I will make fun of him and vice versa. If I call my brother a "moron" that's fine with me. If some non-family member calls him a "moron," them's fighting words. Similarly, my brother has leeway to make fun of my mother in my presence (within limits) that I would never countenance from a stranger. Whatever my brother might say about my mother, I know that (deep down) he loves and respects her; so, for that reason, I give him greater freedom.

Same thing for the N-word, when it is used in the context of the "family" so to speak, then you can be pretty sure it's being uttered by someone who is not actually racist against black people. In that context, it's likely targeted at the individual, not the race as a whole, or stated in jest or for ironic effect. When a white person utters the same word, the implication of racism is the more likely interpretation. When around black people who are not comfortable with you, of course they are prone to take the natural implication of the word, rather than give you the benefit of the doubt. Even if they do know you a bit, they have no way to know whether or not some racist feeling creeps around deep in your heart, so the same negative implication arises.

 

[iceaura]

Actually they can do so without expressing racial bigotry, it just won't be interpreted as such.

The mentally deficient, the strangers to both culture and place as well as language, other innocents

but not you, or your friends. You are not clueless enough.

I'll bet you would have no trouble avoiding the word in the company of a superior at work who was black, or a black judge in a courtroom, or a black officer in a bank who was evaluating your loan application. It's not a word used in innocence except by the truly innocent.

As far as "interpretation" - that's what words mean. You may as well call someone a "jackass" because you claim to be thinking only of proud, strong, masculine, capable associations of male equids.

 

[Anti-Flag]

Same thing for the N-word, when it is used in the context of the "family" so to speak, then you can be pretty sure it's being uttered by someone who is not actually racist against black people. In that context, it's likely targeted at the individual, not the race as a whole, or stated in jest or for ironic effect. When a white person utters the same word, the implication of racism is the more likely interpretation. When around black people who are not comfortable with you, of course they are prone to take the natural implication of the word, rather than give you the benefit of the doubt. Even if they do know you a bit, they have no way to know whether or not some racist feeling creeps around deep in your heart, so the same negative implication arises.

So all black people are automatically part of this 'family'. How does that discourage racial divides in any way? The word is devoid of it's meaning when people use it in the fashion they do today, it is heard everyday time and again, yet it's not acceptable to be used by other races. I'm glad it's losing its offensiveness, but it's about time it became a word that's either ok or it isn't. The word isn't racist anymore, but the people using it(in its original context) are, they could use any other barrage of words and still be racist, likewise a person can use the word nigger in the same jovial way black people do and not be a racist. I hate the basis of skin colour for anything, if it wasn't for the divides people create themselves all I'd see is people. The constant drone of "no more racism" blah blah blah is ridiculous when people allow these divides.
Like I said I'm obviously just youthfully innocent.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

It's because blacks are so overly sensitive and overly emotional.

As far as I can tell, no other "race" of people is so overly sensitive about racism. Why that is, I'm not sure, but my guess is that someone will come up with an excuse for the blacks ...they always do!

Baron Max

what are you claiming is so sensitive exactly? all black people are sensitive? some are? the ones you have met?


peace.

 

[ashpwner]

i don't think you should post here chi cuase you're gonan get mad, from all the racists .

 

[Anti-Flag]

The mentally deficient, the strangers to both culture and place as well as language, other innocents

but not you, or your friends. You are not clueless enough.

I'll take that as a compliment, but sadly you missed the point. I could say the word repeatadly, and still not be a racist, therefore the use of the word does not make someone a racist. Don't mistake non-racist useage with naivety of the words meaning to some people.

I'll bet you would have no trouble avoiding the word in the company of a superior at work who was black, or a black judge in a courtroom, or a black officer in a bank who was evaluating your loan application. It's not a word used in innocence except by the truly innocent.

It would be most unprofessional to address any of these people with the words "wassup ma nigger" don't you think? I understand perfectly the racism other people may attribute to the word, and I respect that, but I personally do not treat it as such, therefore if the people present understood I am not a racist person, I would happily throw around all sorts of words(including those aimed at myself) without any seriousness whatsoever. Its offensiveness has been well and truely worn out on me, and has as little offense as the vast majority of swear words in the english language(which again if it wasn't disrespectful and unprofessional in such company I'd happily use).

As far as "interpretation" - that's what words mean. You may as well call someone a "jackass" because you claim to be thinking only of proud, strong, masculine, capable associations of male equids.

Although there's a difference between interpretation and implication. I may imply I'm being jovial, and have it interpreted as seriousness. Equally I may not clearly imply anything, but that doesn't inherently make the meaning the same as the general interpretation - of course the problem of myself only knowing the true meaning is accepted. However my belief remains that use of the word does not make someone a racist - except in others interpretation.
Obviously once the divide between black and white is finally gone words like nigger will be entirely devoid of meaning and will cease to be used, even by black people. I just hope the message gets across about how stupid it all is when black people can say nigger, and that this seeds the very racial divide people complain of.

 

[Pandaemoni]

So all black people are automatically part of this 'family'. How does that discourage racial divides in any way? The word is devoid of it's meaning when people use it in the fashion they do today, it is heard everyday time and again, yet it's not acceptable to be used by other races. I'm glad it's losing its offensiveness, but it's about time it became a word that's either ok or it isn't. The word isn't racist anymore, but the people using it(in its original context) are, they could use any other barrage of words and still be racist, likewise a person can use the word nigger in the same jovial way black people do and not be a racist. I hate the basis of skin colour for anything, if it wasn't for the divides people create themselves all I'd see is people. The constant drone of "no more racism" blah blah blah is ridiculous when people allow these divides.
Like I said I'm obviously just youthfully innocent.

By "family" I meant (by way of an analogy, hence I put the words in quotes and said "so to speak") a group that is socially connected in such a way that likelihood that the use of the offensive terminology is indicative of invidious prejudice is greatly reduced.

If I were to call my mother a "stupid cunt" in from of my brother, he might be taken aback, but he wouldn't take my head off. If I called *your* mother a "stupid cunt" in front of you, you'd probably be a lot more offended than you'd be if it were a close relative, and more likely to see those as "fighting words." Similarly, if a friend of mine greets me and my other friends with "Hello ladies" I'd be annoyed but cut him some slack. If a stranger greeted us that way, we'd challenge him.

Context matters. The relationships between the speaker and the listener matters. In the case being discussed, it is reasonable to wonder whether the white person who just called you a "nigger" is racist. Given the sweep of western history, there's a fair chance that it does evince some racism, rather than some ironic usage. When one black person uses the same word to another, it changes the likely interpretation.

The word has lost it's offensiveness in the black-on-black context, where it is not likely to demonstrate deep-seated racism. In context where the racist meaning is still the most likely one, I don't see that it's lost it's offensiveness at all.

If I call some chick I meet in a bar a "bitch," she'll find that to be offensive (even if I make it clear that I am merely likening her to a female dog). If I meet her while she's walking her dog and I call her dog "bitch", she might find it odd, but not terribly offensive. If two women who are close friends refer to one another in jest as "bitch", there may be no offense taken and it may be seen as a sign of endearment. Context matters.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

i don't think you should post here chi cuase you're gonan get mad, from all the racists .

lol i wont get mad. i accept that people are racist and prejudice, and stereotype people with the same colour skin, not realising each individual has there own different personality and mind-set.

peace.

 

[Baron Max]

lol i wont get mad. i accept that people are racist and prejudice, and stereotype people with the same colour skin, not realising each individual has there own different personality and mind-set.

Yeah, but just like you probably wouldn't associate or become close to someone who stinks, other people don't want to associate with people who they consider ugly. Ain't no difference.

Birds of a feather flock together ....but that don't mean birds hate other, different birds and want to do them harm. It's just natural.

Baron Max