question for xians

rjr6 Imagine it this way.

Wow, not only is that the worst analogy for JC I've ever seen, its pretty high on the sick and twisted scale. I would definately cross the street to avoid him if that's what is going on. You should like see a therapist or get committed or start doing drugs. The xtianity is obviously not working out so well.
 
Adstar: in Gods Eternity i am covered by the blood of Jesus

Eew! Man! Eating his flesh drinking his blood covered in his blood for all Eternity... you guys are grossing me out.
 
StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
Did you read this :
I cannot obey or disobey something which does not exist or something which I don't know exists.
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You can decide if a directive is worthy of being obeyed or not worthy of being obeyed. It should not matter to you if the Director exists or not. If you are given a message, a code of living. You can decide if it is worthy to follow or worthy to be discarded.

In truth those who are moved by the truth of the directives will believe in the Director. But those who hate the directives belief in the Director is resisted with full vigor.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
swarm said:
Adstar: in Gods Eternity i am covered by the blood of Jesus

Eew! Man! Eating his flesh drinking his blood covered in his blood for all Eternity... you guys are grossing me out.
Click to expand...

Do you have no grasp of simple symbolic speech?

Or are you just being obstinately immature?

I expect such form a 5 year old.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
You can decide if a directive is worthy of being obeyed or not worthy of being obeyed. It should not matter to you if the Director exists or not. If you are given a message, a code of living. You can decide if it is worthy to follow or worthy to be discarded.

In truth those who are moved by the truth of the directives will believe in the Director. But those who hate the directives belief in the Director is resisted with full vigor.
Click to expand...

Convoluted doubletalk.
Do you preach to animals?
 
Adstar: Do you have no grasp of simple symbolic speech?

Sure, except eating his flesh and drinking his blood and being washed in his blood aren't just ugly metaphors, they are supposedly the gospel truth.

transubstantiation: the changing of the elements of the bread and wine, when they are consecrated in the Eucharist, into the body and blood of Christ

1 Corinthians 11
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25 In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."


Note he did not say "this means/represents/symbolizes my body." He said "this is my body."

Now if ritual cannibalism bothers you, maybe you should rethink choosing a religion where it is the central tenet of "salvation." But don't blame me for being able to read and understand what is written.
 
Speaking of xtian oddities why the big play up of his suffering.

Less than a day of torture. Nailed to a cross but then immediately stabbed and killed by a spear.

As bad as that sounds it ain't squat compared to what people suffer on a regular basis.

People go through years of mind numbing torture followed by truly grusome and prolonged deaths, not just from other humans but from disease as well.

Even compared to others of the day JC had it pretty light for what the Romans regularly dished out to miscreants.

Seems like for a god he chickened out. Sure it sucked, but people have taken worse to save others from his followers and their tortures.
 
swarm said:
Adstar: Do you have no grasp of simple symbolic speech?

Sure, except eating his flesh and drinking his blood and being washed in his blood aren't just ugly metaphors, they are supposedly the gospel truth.

transubstantiation: the changing of the elements of the bread and wine, when they are consecrated in the Eucharist, into the body and blood of Christ
Click to expand...

transubstantiation is a catholic teaching. Not a Christian teaching. I am a Christian Not a cathoic. You may as well try quoting an islamic teaching on Jesus to me, it would have the same level of authority with me... None.

1 Corinthians 11
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25 In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
Click to expand...

Plain and clear symbolism. Jesus was instituting an act of remembrance for what He was about to do. But as i said in another post. Those who desperately want to disbelieve will like satan promote the twisted version of Jesus as the true version to help them reject the truth of God and the true Messiah Jesus. You here confirm the point i made. How knowledgeable you are in the balaam traditions of men.


Note he did not say "this means/represents/symbolizes my body." He said "this is my body."

Now if ritual cannibalism bothers you, maybe you should rethink choosing a religion where it is the central tenet of "salvation." But don't blame me for being able to read and understand what is written.
Click to expand...

It is the Holy Spirit that gives one understanding. But to those who seek to run into darkness (symbolic speech there) the thoughts of men will suffice.

satan is laughing at you.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
swarm said:
Speaking of xtian oddities why the big play up of his suffering.

Less than a day of torture. Nailed to a cross but then immediately stabbed and killed by a spear.
Click to expand...

He was not killed by being stabbed. The solider stabbed Him to test if He was dead. He was already dead.

As bad as that sounds it ain't squat compared to what people suffer on a regular basis.

People go through years of mind numbing torture followed by truly grusome and prolonged deaths, not just from other humans but from disease as well.

Even compared to others of the day JC had it pretty light for what the Romans regularly dished out to miscreants.
Click to expand...

You are mistaken.

Seems like for a god he chickened out. Sure it sucked, but people have taken worse to save others from his followers and their tortures.
Click to expand...

True followers of Jesus have tortured no one. False ones have of course, tortured and killed millions in the name of Jesus they have. I guess once again it is more comforting for you to desperately hold onto the false as true to make rejection of the True easier.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar: transubstantiation is a catholic teaching. Not a Christian teaching. I am a Christian Not a cathoic.

Catholics are as much or more christians as you protestant noobs are so save me the internecine squabbling. They at least have a direct lineage supposedly back to JC. All you have is that nut job Luther.

Catholic, Orthadox, protestant, Coptic, Rasta, Universalist, Mormon you are all as true a Christian as the next Christian. Get over it all ready.

A little something from before you guys got schism all over:

“From the Eucharist and the prayer they hold aloof, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.” St Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 7. (Ignatious of Antioch was a direct disciple of John, handpicked to be the bishop of his city.)

“The food that has been made the Eucharist by the prayer of His word, and which nourishes our flesh and blood by assimilation, is both the flesh and blood of that Jesus Who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, Apology 1,66.

And a bit of history: The RCC held to transubstantiation, the bread and wine is transformed into the body and blood of Christ; the Lutheran's who held to consubstantiation, the literal body and blood is present "in, with, and under" the bread and the wine, Calvinists who held that there is a spiritual presence in the elements but not a physical one and finally the Anabaptists who held that there is no presence at all but is strictly symbolic.

[thanks to h ttp://ww w.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-20619.html for the details]

Adstar: satan is laughing at you.

Typical. How can you talk with people like this?

Adstar: He was not killed by being stabbed.

So he bailed before getting stabbed and the caught some lung juice in a cup and they add that to the wine/blood. Quite a mix there. Yum!

Adstar: You are mistaken.

I'm exactly and precisely spot on and you know it. Feel free to prove otherwise. The Romans could be extremely brutal. Read up on it. Consider the accounts of what happened in 70 CE to the last of the Jews. Even Peter had it tougher than JC. Face it. Compared to being burned alive like Joan or any number of those tortured and killed by Christians, JC's death was a dawdle.

Adstar: True followers of Jesus have tortured no one.

So the protestants of the reformation weren't "true?" Cause they sure killed and tortured a lot of people. Doesn't that throw your claim to be a christian in doubt?

I bet you'd be right gleeful if I burned in hell, wouldn't you?
 
rjr6 said:
Through understanding of Jesus you can find forgiveness. Jesus's existence does not eradicate free will. If you have trouble understanding his death and forgiveness and the fact that people die for righteous causes every day, not just Jesus, understand this: He is divine.

Imagine it this way. A man rapes and murders your wife and tortures your children to death, extending their lives for several weeks and allows you to watch. He eats parts of them in front of you, while they are still alive. After your family is dead he kills you slowly over a period of a year.
Once dead in heaven you are reunited with your family. One of your daughters was judged by God as being unfit for heaven for the thoughts she had while being tortured. Her soul is lost (in a place you cannot go) forever.
But this tortuous man needs a servant on Earth to wipe his posterior for the rest of his life as he has become to slothful to do it himself. You volunteer to return to earth, away from the love of your family to do this deed for this man for thirty six years, after which he will torture and kill you. You, taking on this task, may or may not be reunited with your family. You leave Heaven with your family pleading and begging you to stay with them in eternity. Multiply by ten and this is what Jesus's gift was to you. Comprende?
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Sorry, but man has no free will. He is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. Jeremiah 10:23, "Oh Lord, I know a man's life is not his own. It is not for a man to direct his steps." ;)
 
If man has no free will, then your god knew I would be an atheist and consider him to be mythology. In that case, I cannot be held accountable for my so-called "rejection" of your god (in the same way I reject the thousands upon thousands of other gods that came before and after him), since it's his fault I'm an atheist.

I'm being sarcastic, btw.
 
Adstar said:
transubstantiation is a catholic teaching. Not a Christian teaching. I am a Christian Not a cathoic. You may as well try quoting an islamic teaching on Jesus to me, it would have the same level of authority with me... None.

Plain and clear symbolism. Jesus was instituting an act of remembrance for what He was about to do. But as i said in another post. Those who desperately want to disbelieve will like satan promote the twisted version of Jesus as the true version to help them reject the truth of God and the true Messiah Jesus. You here confirm the point i made. How knowledgeable you are in the balaam traditions of men.

It is the Holy Spirit that gives one understanding. But to those who seek to run into darkness (symbolic speech there) the thoughts of men will suffice.

satan is laughing at you.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: Catholicism is a christian religion. Why is it that you people try to pretend this isn't true. You're just as much of a sun worshipper as they are. Their origins are the same.
 
I grew up in & around several noncatholic christian sects including Baptists & Pentecostals & they believe & practice that crap you claim for only Catholics.

BTW, do you preach to animals?
 
scorpius define TRUE and FALSE Christian

True xtian = the xtian talking and possibly xtians of almost exactly the same beliefs
False xtian = all other xtians
 
swarm said:
rjr6 Imagine it this way.

Wow, not only is that the worst analogy for JC I've ever seen, its pretty high on the sick and twisted scale. I would definately cross the street to avoid him if that's what is going on. You should like see a therapist or get committed or start doing drugs. The xtianity is obviously not working out so well.
Click to expand...

Sorry for getting a little morbid. the concept of forgivenss/Christ is complex. The analogy sprung from atheists dismissing Jesus and a general perception of persons that pooh-pooh Jesus.
The analogy was not intended to describe Forgiveness/Sin/Christ/God. It was only intened to describe what Jesus sacrificed for humans by becoming one of us.
 
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