question for xians
- Thread starter scorpius
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Through understanding of Jesus you can find forgiveness. Jesus's existence does not eradicate free will. If you have trouble understanding his death and forgiveness and the fact that people die for righteous causes every day, not just Jesus, understand this: He is divine.
Imagine it this way. A man rapes and murders your wife and tortures your children to death, extending their lives for several weeks and allows you to watch. He eats parts of them in front of you, while they are still alive. After your family is dead he kills you slowly over a period of a year.
Once dead in heaven you are reunited with your family. One of your daughters was judged by God as being unfit for heaven for the thoughts she had while being tortured. Her soul is lost (in a place you cannot go) forever.
But this tortuous man needs a servant on Earth to wipe his posterior for the rest of his life as he has become to slothful to do it himself. You volunteer to return to earth, away from the love of your family to do this deed for this man for thirty six years, after which he will torture and kill you. You, taking on this task, may or may not be reunited with your family. You leave Heaven with your family pleading and begging you to stay with them in eternity. Multiply by ten and this is what Jesus's gift was to you. Comprende?
Imagine it this way. A man rapes and murders your wife and tortures your children to death, extending their lives for several weeks and allows you to watch. He eats parts of them in front of you, while they are still alive. After your family is dead he kills you slowly over a period of a year.
Once dead in heaven you are reunited with your family. One of your daughters was judged by God as being unfit for heaven for the thoughts she had while being tortured. Her soul is lost (in a place you cannot go) forever.
But this tortuous man needs a servant on Earth to wipe his posterior for the rest of his life as he has become to slothful to do it himself. You volunteer to return to earth, away from the love of your family to do this deed for this man for thirty six years, after which he will torture and kill you. You, taking on this task, may or may not be reunited with your family. You leave Heaven with your family pleading and begging you to stay with them in eternity. Multiply by ten and this is what Jesus's gift was to you. Comprende?
Yes, understanding forgiveness through Jesus is complicated for me. I may have not expressed it in a way that would be helpful to others. My apologies.
How would you answer the thread?
Because you have not yet "given them to him". Jesus died for them, that doesn't mean we have to give them up to him. It's like buying a cake for everyone, you buy it for everyone, but not everyone accepts it. (sorry wierd analogy).
Very easily.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
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I'm not.
Jesus did not die for me.
I'm as righteous as I can be. If my best falls short of some inhuman "ideal" & I'm punished for that, it's simply insane.
I cannot obey or disobey something which does not exist or something which I don't know exists.
So what are you worried about?
I agree totally.
You know in your heart that morals exist. And if you're honest with yourself you'll have to admit that true morals can only come from one being in the universe, namely God.
What, me worry?
Don't tell me what I know & don't know.
Did you read this :
I cannot obey or disobey something which does not exist or something which I don't know exists.
I would have said that it's utter nonsense, a way to make his death sound as if it served a purpose beyond what it actually was. It is made to sound intentional, as if it was the plan all along, because it has to in order for Jesus to remain a deity. A god can't be tricked by Man.
But to the question, which was, "if Jesus died for our sins, how can we be sinners?" I would say that it doesn't really seem that he did die for our sins. We are still born with original sin (why we are baptized), and we can still sin on our own...so I'm not really sure how they spin that one.
See? You asked, I answered. More than I can say for you.
Given that the morals of Christianity have been contrary to the morals of secular society on many occasions, this god (if yours is the Christian god) must be one evil bastard. I want little to do with your god's morals and I'm rather satisfied with those of humanity based on human experience.
After all, it is human morality based on human experience that has rejected nonsensical and evil practices of stoning adulterers, taking slaves, killing those that don't keep the sabbath, offering your daughter up for gang-rape, etc. Biblical atrocities like these have no place in moral society.
Further, given that there are billions of people who don't recognize your own god and have god(s) of their own, its very clear that morality isn't a "divine" attribute at all and that it is a wonderful construct of human society.
Do we accumulate sin debt? At what point does God call in His loan? When does he 'bail us out'. Slaughtering the world seemed to be an ample arrangement for the first round and knocking off Jesus seemed to be His method of repayment for a second go round.
Who gets to die when our credit gets streched again? This is obviously how God solves his credit crunch. Yet He still continues to collect interest on His loaning us Life and on original sin, since we are still dying. Hard to believe that we even add to the sin debt total by being born, truly amazing!!
Who gets to die when our credit gets streched again? This is obviously how God solves his credit crunch. Yet He still continues to collect interest on His loaning us Life and on original sin, since we are still dying. Hard to believe that we even add to the sin debt total by being born, truly amazing!!
That is what people did and i am not so sure it was just do to religion.
There were several verbs and a couple of themes to that short post. Could you at least narrow down which paragraph if not which specific point you were responding to?
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M*W: Excellent question. That seems to be the contradiction of christianity. The trick here is in order for Jesus to take the sins away, you gotta believe that he died for you. I just don't understand the logic in this. I didn't come into this world to be saved from anything, and I never asked for it. All I could see that this mind-set does is bring guilt and fear into a person's life. To me, that is the description of hell.
The astro-theology of christianity
M*W: I believe there is an astro-theological meaning in these two passages:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
As I understand this, I would question exactly what does it mean when it says written, and I would assume that, considering the time this was written, it would mean that anything that was not written down was not considered as authentic as oral traditions.
Moving on:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
Astro-theologically taken, I believe when it refers to rightousness (a metaphor) for anything lesser than the sun/son of god, who is not as righteous as the sun/son of god. I understand that that the ancients believed that the darkness of night became known as "sin." They believed that the the sun/son of god, the creator of the universe, was the supreme being, creator of all things.
Some cultures of the day believed that the moon was called "sin," as in the darkness or time of evil when the sun/son of god hid behind the Earth when the ancients couldn't see their "god."
The NT (and even in the OT), there are hidden meanings in the scripture that refers to astrological (logos) or god-like figures, includes the belief that the sun was the son of god.
Venus, the Morningstar, rises with the sun, so in essence, the planet Venus is also believed to be the sun/sun of god. The devil was also called the Morningstar, or one who is there at the right hand of god, but who is lesser than god (the sun). My take on this is that the planets in our solar system are lesser than the sun/son of god.
Moving on:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)[/QUOTE]
All the constellations, stars and planets have experienced the darkness of night (evil) as well as the brightness of day (good). All these things have "sinned," and have not and will never live up to the solar-centric placement of the sun in our universe.
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M*W: I believe there is an astro-theological meaning in these two passages:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
As I understand this, I would question exactly what does it mean when it says written, and I would assume that, considering the time this was written, it would mean that anything that was not written down was not considered as authentic as oral traditions.
Moving on:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
Astro-theologically taken, I believe when it refers to rightousness (a metaphor) for anything lesser than the sun/son of god, who is not as righteous as the sun/son of god. I understand that that the ancients believed that the darkness of night became known as "sin." They believed that the the sun/son of god, the creator of the universe, was the supreme being, creator of all things.
Some cultures of the day believed that the moon was called "sin," as in the darkness or time of evil when the sun/son of god hid behind the Earth when the ancients couldn't see their "god."
The NT (and even in the OT), there are hidden meanings in the scripture that refers to astrological (logos) or god-like figures, includes the belief that the sun was the son of god.
Venus, the Morningstar, rises with the sun, so in essence, the planet Venus is also believed to be the sun/sun of god. The devil was also called the Morningstar, or one who is there at the right hand of god, but who is lesser than god (the sun). My take on this is that the planets in our solar system are lesser than the sun/son of god.
Moving on:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)[/QUOTE]
All the constellations, stars and planets have experienced the darkness of night (evil) as well as the brightness of day (good). All these things have "sinned," and have not and will never live up to the solar-centric placement of the sun in our universe.
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neither do I,but then logic and religion doesnt mix well as the xian responses prove.
also what about people who never heard about Jesus or lived before his time?
did he took their sins away also?
all that SIN is just Self Inflicted Nonsense
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M*W: I love it!
In eternity i am not a sinner, All my sins have been covered by the blood of Jesus. But i am not in eternity from my perspective. I am still in universal time. Therefore in Gods Eternity i am covered by the blood of Jesus and am accounted as righteous through believing Him. But in this universal time from my perspective i am a sinner with still a lot of sinning to do.( that’s if i live a normal life time).
It is all about what perspective your looking at time scorpius. Our times here in the universe or God time in His place.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days