quantum consciousness?

[EmptyForceOfChi]

An appeal to the ancients doesn't equate to legitimacy. The Maya believed, "thousands of years ago" I might add, that it was appropriate to offer blood sacrifices of themselves by piercing their penises with sharp objects until they lost enough blood to see visions. I don't see you lining up to take part in this age-old practice of communing with the universe.

Candy said, "[a]s a mystical experience being an expansion of the energy field that floods the mind and body that transcends the normal senses in essence the whole body has a quantum event."

There isn't ANYTHING TO SCIENTIFICALLY OBSERVE. Therefore, it is poppycock. New age. "The whole body is a quantum event?" Candy obviously believes this could be so, but also has no apparent knowledge of what a "quantum event" truly is.

It is a pseudoscientific buzzword when misapplied to anything but the physics laboratory, where real, observable, and materialistic, reductionist observation is taking place. Quantum this and quantum that applied to 'consiousness,' alternative healing, etc is poppycock. Poppycock because it isn't testable. The woo-woo's LOVE the untestable, becuase they can always fall back on the argument that religious nutters use: you can't prove it isn't true.



The woo-woo's also love appeals to authority. Imagination is fine, even fun, until you try to pass off everything you imagine as reality. At that point it becomes poppycock.

yes im aware of how many mistakes humans make, thats why ive learned to never believe in anything atall, not even what i see with my own 2 eyes, for all i know conciousness and everything is not even real, i just keep an open mind and take everything as a possibility, and this is possible,


ok and as you and science seem to know it all, would you please explain to me and give answers to all the questions i wanted answerd, i wasnt aware we had all knowing biengs among us, do you reallt think we can explain everything with modern science, we have to create theorys, and philosophies, we have to wonder and imagine, some things we can never know as physical human biengs, dont rely on science to answer everything, for all you know a little old man living in ancient china/tibet could hold more correct answeres to the universe than all of science put together,

who really knows anything atall?

yeah the ball is blue and it bounces really high, but colours for you, and is there really a sky,?

peace

 

[candy]

Skinwalker, I did mean entaglement phenomenon. It is perhaps the word mystical that in connection with the entaglement phenomenon that bothers your world view but it is the best word I can think of to describe the phenomenon two particles where an action on one is manifested as well on the other. It is also what happens when the energy field of a human concsiousness expands to be part of (that is to have oneness with) the greater energy field that transcends the known physical world. There is simply a whole lot that science does not know how to explain.

Jung sumed up this obession that science knows it all best when he stated "Those who say such things merely express an age-old 'misoneism' - a fear of the new and the unknown"

If I were to make a prediction about science it would be that a some time in the future science will measure a fourth force to go with the gravitational, electrical, and magnetic forces that have been measured that will possibly reconcile some of the disparities between relativity and quantum and lead to a better understanding of what we now think of as unexplained phenomenon.

 

[Laika]

If I were to make a prediction about science it would be that a some time in the future science will measure a fourth force to go with the gravitational, electrical, and magnetic forces that have been measured

That's a postdiction, surely. Haven't you heard of the strong and weak forces?

 

[SkinWalker]

It is also what happens when the energy field of a human concsiousness expands to be part of (that is to have oneness with) the greater energy field that transcends the known physical world.

New age mumbo jumbo. It means nothing. An 'energy field of human consciousness' that 'expands to be part of the greater energy field?'

New agers are always going on about "energy fields" and the like. This is the reason why new age nutters like the word 'quantum,' because its so mysterious. Moreover, its pretty clear that you haven't even a working understanding of quantum mechanics much less how it might relate to disciplines outside of particle physics.

Also, your entire post was:

As a mystical experience being an expansion of the energy field that floods the mind and body that transcends the normal senses in essence the whole body has a quantum event.

No where in it do we see anything that remotely resembles quantum entanglement. So you might have been thinking it, but you certainly did not imply it with that post.

ok and as you and science seem to know it all, would you please explain to me and give answers to all the questions i wanted answerd, i wasnt aware we had all knowing biengs among us, do you reallt think we can explain everything with modern science, we have to create theorys, and philosophies, blah, blah, blah

Quit bitching & crying. Nobody said they "know everything." This is such a typical response when those that believe in the supernatural get faced with the demands of science: they accuse anyone who rejects their beliefs (fantasies in this case) as being "know it alls." If science "knew everything," it wouldn't need to exist. But I don't need to "know everything" to be pretty sure you don't have a live gorilla in the trunk of your car. I only need to know a little. Additionally, your "who really knows anything at all?" argument smacks of postmodernist humbug. Going through life thinking everything is possible must make you a salesman's dream.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

New age mumbo jumbo. It means nothing. An 'energy field of human consciousness' that 'expands to be part of the greater energy field?'

New agers are always going on about "energy fields" and the like. This is the reason why new age nutters like the word 'quantum,' because its so mysterious. Moreover, its pretty clear that you haven't even a working understanding of quantum mechanics much less how it might relate to disciplines outside of particle physics.

Also, your entire post was:No where in it do we see anything that remotely resembles quantum entanglement. So you might have been thinking it, but you certainly did not imply it with that post.



Quit bitching & crying. Nobody said they "know everything." This is such a typical response when those that believe in the supernatural get faced with the demands of science: they accuse anyone who rejects their beliefs (fantasies in this case) as being "know it alls." If science "knew everything," it wouldn't need to exist. But I don't need to "know everything" to be pretty sure you don't have a live gorilla in the trunk of your car. I only need to know a little. Additionally, your "who really knows anything at all?" argument smacks of postmodernist humbug. Going through life thinking everything is possible must make you a salesman's dream.

that was harsh,

ok i will stop bitching and wipe my eyes dry from all te crying, are you done bieng aggressive now?,

and how is it a typical response? you were dissmissing my theorys, and trying to tell me your theorys are better basicaly, i am open to what your beleifs are, im not closed minded atall, you seem to be closed to my philosophies and theorys, you were talking as if you know you are right, when your in the same boat as me, you dont know that much about anything, human ego including science and religion truely clouds the judgement, because your mind gets trapped into thinking, the latest knowledge is truely right 100%, the universe is a constant flowing energy, and we can never know it all we have to philosophise all the time,


yes its part of the dao's scripts roughly, mystic mumbo jumbo so if anybody knows any taiji, or is buddhist, or taoist, or believes in ghosts spirits or auras, they cant be spoken to with respect because they are nuts new age blah blahs,

just because one is open to something as a possibility, dosent mean he believes it to be true,

peace my dissrespectfull brother,

 

[SkinWalker]

you were dissmissing my theorys, and trying to tell me your theorys are better basicaly,

Theories? You mean those things in science that consist of tested hypotheses? Tell me: what hypotheses did you test? I have no theories regarding quantum physics. None appear to exist regarding 'quantum consciousness.' One or two speculations exist. Many more fantasies exist. But no "theories."

i am open to what your beleifs are, im not closed minded atall, you seem to be closed to my philosophies and theorys, you were talking as if you know you are right, when your in the same boat as me,

I have only the vaguest idea what your "philosphies and theorys (sic)" are. But what, exactly, in the my post you quoted at the top of this page did you find that indicated I'm a "know it all" or that I'm closed-minded? Because I don't blindly accept as probable the notion of quantum consciousness? Why should I accept that any more than the 800 pound gorilla in your trunk? Both are possible. Indeed, the gorilla is more probable, since we have evidence of the existence of gorillas. I'd say that you and I are in two quite different "boats."

just because one is open to something as a possibility, dosent mean he believes it to be true,

Of course not. I don't recall ever using terminology that excluded possibility. I called it poppycock. Its humbug. Its new age mumbo jumbo. Sure its possible. Its just more probable that with your next flat tire, a gorilla will hand you the jack.

peace my dissrespectfull brother,

Pseudoscience deserves no respect. However, if you found my remarks personally offensive or disrespectful, I offer my apologies. But you surely aren't the first to use those same fallacious arguments and I probably took them to be equally offensive based on that and the ignorance that seems to go with them.

Besides, you *did* ask what peoples' opinions were on the subject.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Theories? You mean those things in science that consist of tested hypotheses? Tell me: what hypotheses did you test? I have no theories regarding quantum physics. None appear to exist regarding 'quantum consciousness.' One or two speculations exist. Many more fantasies exist. But no "theories."



I have only the vaguest idea what your "philosphies and theorys (sic)" are. But what, exactly, in the my post you quoted at the top of this page did you find that indicated I'm a "know it all" or that I'm closed-minded? Because I don't blindly accept as probable the notion of quantum consciousness? Why should I accept that any more than the 800 pound gorilla in your trunk? Both are possible. Indeed, the gorilla is more probable, since we have evidence of the existence of gorillas. I'd say that you and I are in two quite different "boats."



Of course not. I don't recall ever using terminology that excluded possibility. I called it poppycock. Its humbug. Its new age mumbo jumbo. Sure its possible. Its just more probable that with your next flat tire, a gorilla will hand you the jack.



Pseudoscience deserves no respect. However, if you found my remarks personally offensive or disrespectful, I offer my apologies. But you surely aren't the first to use those same fallacious arguments and I probably took them to be equally offensive based on that and the ignorance that seems to go with them.

Besides, you *did* ask what peoples' opinions were on the subject.

well i think by calling it all poppycock and mumbo jumbo, that is dissmissing it, and mocking it, looking down and judging,


you speak as if you know quantum physics in its entirety,


http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-Quantum-Theory-Mechanics.htm


this is an interestiing summary of theories,


peace,

 

[SkinWalker]

The thread topic wasn't quantum physics. It was the alleged "quantum consciousness."

I call it poppycock & mumbo jumbo because that's what it is. Show otherwise and I'll gladly revise my position. But, to date, no one has demonstrated a quantum 'consciousness' and certainly no one has demonstrated that nonsense candy was going on about that he/she later said he/she meant quantum entanglement.

You asked for opinions. "Quantum" is a word that new agers just love because it has a built-in "uncertainty." They depend upon uncertainty, particularly scam artists like Deepak Chopra who want to make money from it.

And I hardly know quantum physics "in its entirety." I don't even know it with any significant partial amount. But I know it enough to understand that this thread isn't about quantum physics. Its about pseudoscience.

 

[duendy]

ahhhh good. you err humbly admit not knowin quantum physics in its entirity. let us meditate on tos e words of Skins ........(((((((((((^))))))))))).........
ahhhhhhhhh, that feels good. so let us keep that in mind all the time. Skin doesn't understand the quantum world. what can tis mean?

i hasten to bet that you Skin ALSo dont know CONSCIOUSNESS in its entireity?....am i correct in that assumption?

 

[SkinWalker]

There is no 'quantum consciousness' ... its pseudoscience. Prove otherwise and I'll revise my position.

 

[duendy]

There is no 'quantum consciousness' ... its pseudoscience. Prove otherwise and I'll revise my position.

see? you are jumping to conclusions regarding what i may mean.....no here did i say 'yes quantum consciousness is real' did i?
what i DID say was --reading you, highlight as a meditation , te fact that Skin said he did not know quantum physics in its entireity. yeah?

THEn i asked you, do you know CONSCIOUSNESS in its entireity? ......well? do you?
if so, can you explain what you mean by knowing consciousness in its eniteriety, please?

 

[SkinWalker]

Duendy, I'm really not all that smart to begin with, so its safe to say that there probably isn't anything I know in its "entirety."

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Duendy, I'm really not all that smart to begin with, so its safe to say that there probably isn't anything I know in its "entirety."

exactly,


so beleiving anything is truely real cant be done, the only one real thing is the dao, everything is a branch of the 1 tree, that tree might not have ever been planted, it may not exist,


peace,

 

[candy]

So now in skinwalker's reality Deepak Chopra is a scam artist.

That would imply that in your reality Caroline Myss is also a scam artist.
I assume that in your reality Edgar Cayce was also a scam artist.
Sylvia Browne has come up with an interesting response to your attitude that is basically that they have healed a lot of people; who have you healed?

They claim that they see the auric field and that is how they can diagnose illness and suggest remedies. The remedies have worked so I take them at their word. Please note that Myss has worked with MDs who check her readings with the tests available and they have shown her readings to be accurate. So to convince me that you are correct you will have to provide evidence that proves these people to be scam artists.

Theoretical physics is just that theorectical. Quantum mechanics and quantum phenomenon are very different in that the phenomenon do not always abide by the mechanics.

 

[SkinWalker]

So now in skinwalker's reality Deepak Chopra is a scam artist.

That would imply that in your reality Caroline Myss is also a scam artist.

Yes. She is a scam artist. Actually, "artist" would be a bit complementary. But she is a con and a sham nonetheless.

She provides no proof of her alleged "abilities" other than testimony. You say she "worked with MDs" but I say, where are the peer-reviewed publications of these MDs. Indeed, what were their names? Were is the evidence beyond her own allegation?

She has "PhD" on her jacket, but makes no mention of her academic qualifications. Where? What field? Who certified? In the end, she is unable to show any evidence of her claims. Assholes have been taking people for money in this fashion for hundreds of years. She's a scam, but not much of an artist.

I assume that in your reality Edgar Cayce was also a scam artist.

Edgar Cayce has been demonstrated to be a complete fraud time and time again. That people overlook his failures and the evidence against him and cling to the belief that he was legitimate is testimony only of the ignorance and gullibility of those that believe his nonsense.

Sylvia Browne has come up with an interesting response to your attitude that is basically that they have healed a lot of people; who have you healed?

I'd like to see the evidence that EVEN ONE PERSON HAS BEEN HEALED OF ANYTHING. None of the assholes mentioned above have ever been able to produce any. Indeed, everything I wrote about Cayce applies equally, or more so, to Browne. She has been demonstrated a fraud many, many times. But her books still sell.

Perhaps some fence-sitter will read my words and decide to examine the evidence for his/her self. If so, than I've "healed" one more person than either of those assholes.

Why do I use "asshole?" Because there simply isn't any other term that aptly describes or labels individuals such as they more effectively in one word. They intentionally and knowingly con (or conned in Cayce's case) money from the gullible. Much like the guy who created the Cardiff giant and prompted PT Barnum to exclaim, "there's a sucker born every minute."

They claim that they see the auric field and that is how they can diagnose illness and suggest remedies.

The key thing here is: "they claim." Only fools, the ignorant and the gullible take that at face value. I realize that offends many people, but it is true. The good news is, the foolish can become wise, the ignorant can be educated, and the gullible will only be taken so many times.

The remedies have worked so I take them at their word.

Of course you do.

So to convince me that you are correct you will have to provide evidence that proves these people to be scam artists.

Of course I would. Why should devout believers demand anything else? I mean, why would a devout follower of cult figures like those above dare to question their WILD CLAIMS? Why hold the notion that extraordinary claims require some sort of evidence or that the burden of proof would be on the claimant? That would all be counter-intuitive to the believer.

This is a "science forum." It follows that a "pseudoscience/parapsychology" sub-forum is one of two things: 1) a dumping ground for the kooks & woo-woo's; 2) a place for those that subscribe to the scientific process to discuss pseudo/para sciences as problems endemic in society.

I choose the latter. If I were to choose to discuss poppycock ideas and the paranormal with the perspective that they were factual, I'd find a woo-woo board to inhabit.

Theoretical physics is just that theorectical.

Theoretical is derived from the word theory. Theory, in sciences, refers to explanation(s) arrived at from tested or testable hypotheses. In the woo-woo world it refers to any half-baked idea or speculation. This is a science forum. Guess which definition is relevant?

Quantum mechanics and quantum phenomenon are very different in that the phenomenon do not always abide by the mechanics.

Really? How so? What's the math behind either? Quantum entanglement is simply the idea that one atom going into superposition will cause another to do the same. Quantum superposition is the notion that an atom has equal probability of being excited as at rest.

Now, if you don't mind, what's the definition of "quantum phenomenon?"

As it relates to pseudoscience, I say it is the casual and frequent use of the term quantum (which, essentially, means a tiny unit or amount) with esoteric social constructs.

 

[wesmorris]

sure man, ok well instead of me typing it all out because its complex, i will post a link.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_consciousness



basically its about a link between the concious physical and the eternal conciousness in a 5 dimentional plain of existance and each brain projects a gateway interconnecting the 2 planes, (i think thats correct im still learning about it myself so sorry if that wasnt correct)



peace,

Funny. This is basically the theory I've been coming touting on my own for some time now. Didn't know I could read about it on wikka. Sheez.

 

[VitalOne]

SkinWalker is an ignorant fool

Quantum Consciousness is a protoscience, not a pseudoscience, meaning not enough experiments have been conducted to verify it be true or false, but which otherwise fits into science reasonably. For instance, even the String theory is a protoscience.

I personally believe that "Quantum Consciousness" is almost true, but not quite true. Incurable diseases cannot be cured by simply having good thoughts. Incurable diseases are caused by repressed negative thoughts, it's your unconscious trying to tell you something that you're not confronting. And if you never confront it, it will remain there. And please, do not say this is unreasonable because there is much correlation between health and the mind.

SkinWalker is the type of person who has no independant mind of his own believes whatever conclusions the top, accepted scientists come to.

 

[candy]

Myss' first book was written in collaboration with the MD she worked with. Can't remember his name. Her PhD is in theology I think. Mona Lisa Schulz is a MD/PhD who does readings via the phone and recommends that you doctor follow up with diagnostic tests to confirm her readings. The good intuitives all want people to seek traditional medical treatment as part of the healing process.
While some of Cayce's predictions have not come to be others have and his health readings were very accurrate.
Personally I am not a believer in reincarnation but I would never bash someone because they do believe.

 

[SkinWalker]

Myss' first book was written in collaboration with the MD she worked with. Can't remember his name.

It was C Norman Shealy, a neurosurgeon who started the Holos University Graduate Seminary and has deep roots in the pocket-books and purse strings of those willing to pay for "hollistic" and "alternative" medicine. Another shuckster.

Mona Lisa Schulz is a MD/PhD who does readings via the phone and recommends that you doctor follow up with diagnostic tests to confirm her readings.

What part of "people are greedy and willing to con others" don't you believe? Why do you believe people who claim to be educated but say what you want to hear and not the many, many more who are educated and challenge those beliefs on the basis of NO EVIDENCE. Show me the evidence of their claims.

 

[candy]

What part of the fact that the "alternative" medicine does work do you not understand?
Peer review is not what makes something work. When it works it produces positive results no matter what conventional science may think is true. You can not convince me that "alternative" remedies wil not work because I have used them sucessfully when conventional treatments were not working to control my allergies that is the best proof for me. When it works it works whether or not science can explain why. Science does not have all the answers. Accept that the unexplained (the mystical) is still here. Science is not a god; it is merely technology.