quantum consciousness?

E

EmptyForceOfChi

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what are peoples opinions on this subject if you have any atall?, i have some doubts in this theory, but im open to it as a possibilty its not to far out there considering the infinity of the universe and all,

anways what do you people think?


peace
 
well Empty, yer should havfe introduced it.....given an overview or someting.

i have read Quantum Psychology by RA Wilson

anyway, pleasetell us why you ask, and summarize it please?
 
duendy said:
well Empty, yer should havfe introduced it.....given an overview or someting.

i have read Quantum Psychology by RA Wilson

anyway, pleasetell us why you ask, and summarize it please?
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sure man, ok well instead of me typing it all out because its complex, i will post a link.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_consciousness



basically its about a link between the concious physical and the eternal conciousness in a 5 dimentional plain of existance and each brain projects a gateway interconnecting the 2 planes, (i think thats correct im still learning about it myself so sorry if that wasnt correct)



peace,
 
I think that naturally occurring carbon nanotubes in the brain can do quantum computing at body temperature. These structures keep the noise out while allowing the electrons inside to move to the states they need to.
 
you simply cannot pin down consciousness. you cant measure it or label it. it is like water, you cant grab it with te arms as its will seek ways to flow out as is its natural nature

Quantum teory has been a really radical move away rom te mechanical paradigm set in science since Descartes:

"The following key notions establish quantum theory as a paradigm-breaker pr excellence.
'Energy comes in quanta'. whereas relativity theory presents a view of te universe a a continuous matrix of spacetime, quantum teory paradoxically describes a physical world of matter-energy that is NOT continuous. The central concept [is that] eergy come in discrete "bundles" on indivisible packets called "quanta" - with 'noting in between'. In te quantum universe, the world is full of "gaps". But these are strange "gaps". They form the quantum void,a infinite sea of quantum potential, of probability waves which when 'observed'
collapse to form te world of actualities......The cosmos is a verb, not a noun. The universe is "quantuming" or "cosmosing"
If, as both quantum and relativity tell us, events, processes, or durations lie at the heart of reality, then reality cannot be wholly objective, cannot be wholly mechanistic--cannot be made up of "dead" matter' ((Radical Nature, Christian de Quincey, p.26)
so this quantum world is pretty weird to say te least. a private email communication wit physicist, Nick Herbert, where he told me that even tho physcists USe quantum mechaniics, and create all te technology we are familiar with, they DON'T understand it... !

in Empty's link we read that David Chalmers ('the Hard Problem), believes that it is a misconeption to believe that since both quantum and consciousness are both mysteries that this means they must be related--which he terms "minimization of mysteries"
whati think he meaans is that--in the definition of de Quincey's 'energy talk'--when you try and say consciousness IS someTHING like 'quantum' consciousness, ten you are trying to pin it down onto another mystery. De Quincey calls it 'energy talk- when you attempt to define consciounsess as energy......that YES, consciousness is always WITH matter/energy yet ISN@Tmatter/energy, it is wilt but distinct as consciousness cannot be measured. it is e 'inside feeling' of matter energy
 
duendy said:
you simply cannot pin down consciousness. you cant measure it or label it. it is like water, you cant grab it with te arms as its will seek ways to flow out as is its natural nature

Quantum teory has been a really radical move away rom te mechanical paradigm set in science since Descartes:

"The following key notions establish quantum theory as a paradigm-breaker pr excellence.
'Energy comes in quanta'. whereas relativity theory presents a view of te universe a a continuous matrix of spacetime, quantum teory paradoxically describes a physical world of matter-energy that is NOT continuous. The central concept [is that] eergy come in discrete "bundles" on indivisible packets called "quanta" - with 'noting in between'. In te quantum universe, the world is full of "gaps". But these are strange "gaps". They form the quantum void,a infinite sea of quantum potential, of probability waves which when 'observed'
collapse to form te world of actualities......The cosmos is a verb, not a noun. The universe is "quantuming" or "cosmosing"
If, as both quantum and relativity tell us, events, processes, or durations lie at the heart of reality, then reality cannot be wholly objective, cannot be wholly mechanistic--cannot be made up of "dead" matter' ((Radical Nature, Christian de Quincey, p.26)
so this quantum world is pretty weird to say te least. a private email communication wit physicist, Nick Herbert, where he told me that even tho physcists USe quantum mechaniics, and create all te technology we are familiar with, they DON'T understand it... !

in Empty's link we read that David Chalmers ('the Hard Problem), believes that it is a misconeption to believe that since both quantum and consciousness are both mysteries that this means they must be related--which he terms "minimization of mysteries"
whati think he meaans is that--in the definition of de Quincey's 'energy talk'--when you try and say consciousness IS someTHING like 'quantum' consciousness, ten you are trying to pin it down onto another mystery. De Quincey calls it 'energy talk- when you attempt to define consciounsess as energy......that YES, consciousness is always WITH matter/energy yet ISN@Tmatter/energy, it is wilt but distinct as consciousness cannot be measured. it is e 'inside feeling' of matter energy
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yes but quantum theorys hold alot of good points, and especially black holes wich could be entrance tot he gaps, because the energy and matter must go somewhere after as you know energy cant be destroyed,


peace
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
yes but quantum theorys hold alot of good points, and especially black holes wich could be entrance tot he gaps, because the energy and matter must go somewhere after as you know energy cant be destroyed,


peace
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never said it didn't hold good points. i am just trying to say that consciousness is really im-measureable, and is how indestrctable matter/energy FEELS....hence we are in for SOMe suprises...hooold onto yeeer hats, this is gonna be a multidimensional riiiide

hvingsaid that....the leaf at dawn...look closely, with the fresh morn air tearing eyes....look at the pearls of dew on the veined leaf. what could be more amazing than this??
 
Quantum consciousness seems to me to be trying to explain what R M Bucke theorized as Cosmic Consciousness.
 
As a mystical experience being an expansion of the energy field that floods the mind and body that transcends the normal senses in essence the whole body has a quantum event.
 
I think the word "quantum" is very appealing to pseudoscientific types who want to appeal to the esoteric and that which is on the fringes of legitimate science. Pseudoscience, remember, is the act of making an unsupported/unsupportable claim sound scientific by adding scientific terms.

"Quantum consciousness" has no real support -it isn't a hypothesis that lends it self to testing but, rather, one that lends itself to New Age quackery.

Deepak Chopra (1993) goes on and on about "quantum healing" and other nonsense. He says, "the physical world, including our bodies, is a response of the observer. We create our bodies as we create the experience of our world (p. 5)" and he thinks we can "think" ourselves better from illnesses as serious as cancer. Chopra believes that illness and aging are simply two conditions that exist in our minds (never mind the preponderance of data that exists to show otherwise) and that by thinking in the right way we can achieve "ageless body, timeless mind" by the sheer force of consciousness."

There are so-called "quantum mystics" who perceive quantum wave function as a some sort of "vibration" felt by the entire universe as if it were a sound wave heard by the the universe itself and if it were some sort of omniscent being. "One could then conclude that Being, in its physical analogue at least, had been "revealed" in the wavefunction..." (Kafatos and Nadeau 1990,124).

A wave function is a mathematical quantity used to compute the probability that a particle will be found at a particular position at a given time. Once the position of the particle is known with any accuracy, the wave function is said to "collapse."

There is no compelling evidence that "quantum consciousness" exists or that quantum mechanics plays a significant part in our consciousness at all. Quantum mechanics as a branch of physics is a materialistic and reductionist science, consitent with that which can be observed scientifically. I'm sure that statement will be much to the chagrin of duendy, but other than observations of the material world, there simply isn't any other way to conduct science with any reproducible consistency. His "anti-materialist" rhetoric is well heard but un-defined in these forums...

Chopra, Deepak (1993). Ageless Body, Timeless Mind: The Quantum Alternative to Growing Old. New York: Random House.

Kafatos, Menas, and Nadeau, Robert (1990). The Conscious Universe: Part and Whole in Modern Physical Theory. New York: Springer-Verlag.
 
candy said:
As a mystical experience being an expansion of the energy field that floods the mind and body that transcends the normal senses in essence the whole body has a quantum event.
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Which is new age poppycock and certainly NOT anything that can be tested or observed.
 
thats not very scientific of you now is it?.

to dismiss things that are possible without testing, or giving it any thought other than, "new age poppycock" when it actually has roots from thousands of years ago, many philosophies have simular concepts, you shouldent dismiss anything unless it is proven to be false properly,

as einstein said, "the imagination is greater than knowledge",

peace
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
you shouldent dismiss anything unless it is proven to be false properly
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So you are willing to entertain the idea of a pink unicorn roaming accross the empty space between stars? Certainly it hasn't been proven false yet.
 
to dismiss things that are possible without testing, or giving it any thought other than, "new age poppycock" when it actually has roots from thousands of years ago
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That's odd. I was under the impression that quantum theory was a relatively recent discovery.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
thats not very scientific of you now is it?.

to dismiss things that are possible without testing, or giving it any thought other than, "new age poppycock" when it actually has roots from thousands of years ago, many philosophies have simular concepts, you shouldent dismiss anything unless it is proven to be false properly,
Click to expand...

An appeal to the ancients doesn't equate to legitimacy. The Maya believed, "thousands of years ago" I might add, that it was appropriate to offer blood sacrifices of themselves by piercing their penises with sharp objects until they lost enough blood to see visions. I don't see you lining up to take part in this age-old practice of communing with the universe.

Candy said, "[a]s a mystical experience being an expansion of the energy field that floods the mind and body that transcends the normal senses in essence the whole body has a quantum event."

There isn't ANYTHING TO SCIENTIFICALLY OBSERVE. Therefore, it is poppycock. New age. "The whole body is a quantum event?" Candy obviously believes this could be so, but also has no apparent knowledge of what a "quantum event" truly is.

It is a pseudoscientific buzzword when misapplied to anything but the physics laboratory, where real, observable, and materialistic, reductionist observation is taking place. Quantum this and quantum that applied to 'consiousness,' alternative healing, etc is poppycock. Poppycock because it isn't testable. The woo-woo's LOVE the untestable, becuase they can always fall back on the argument that religious nutters use: you can't prove it isn't true.

EmptyForceOfChi said:
as einstein said, "the imagination is greater than knowledge",
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The woo-woo's also love appeals to authority. Imagination is fine, even fun, until you try to pass off everything you imagine as reality. At that point it becomes poppycock.
 
I was thinking in terms of entaglement phenomenon but then again that area of quantum study maybe just new age poopycock.

Is it not strange that a great thinker like Einstein could embrace the concept of intuition but others just will not think outside the box. They will never know what they are missing with their funnel vision blinders on.
 
candy said:
I was thinking in terms of entaglement phenomenon but then again that area of quantum study maybe just new age poopycock.
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Quantum entanglement most certainly is NOT what you were referring to. If so, perhaps you could explain what part of quantum entanglment includes a "mystical experience being an expansion of the energy field that floods the mind and body?"

What is the forumula for this?

Is it not strange that a great thinker like Einstein could embrace the concept of intuition but others just will not think outside the box.
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"Thinking outside the box:" another psuedoscience buzz word. Thinking out of the box is fine. But making claims based on those thoughts alone amounts to nothing more than fantasy. Face it, Candy, you subscribe to the fantastical not the real. You want to believe in that which cannot be proven rather than that which has potential for falsification. You're a mystery-monger, addicted to the significance of spurious correlations and fantasies like "quantum consciousness." Ironically, Einstein really didn't like quantum entanglement and called it "spooky action at a distance."

Nice link, duendy. Now let's see you comment on it in your own words.
 
you want a revIEW? tHAT'LL BE 10 bucks..? thankyou
ok, wherehe ov erviews David Chalmers ideas is alright till he seems to suggest consciousness creates reality/matter .....i am not happy with tat interpretation. i am happy with the ard Problem where it stresses the problem of scientifically understand subjective consciouness, but to speculate that from ther tat consciousness makes matter is to me too much like te dualist Eastern beliefs, Advaita Vedanta, which is Ideaism, AND/OR 'EMNATIONISM'--ie., the idea that matter is some form of 'solidified' version of consciousness

at the mjoment i am clickin wit Christian de Qunicey's teories--which are commensurate with anceint primal animism, where matter/energy and consciousness are both realities not one better than te oter. why? cause they are ALWAYS rogther YE disctinct, like the substance and shape of a tennis ball

if you posit eithe matter or consciousness as being THE primary source is when you fall into the trap of dualistic thinking....Advaita Vedana can be termed 'sibtle dualism' becauseits exponents are unaware OFits dualistic premises
 
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