q says: "ET visiting Earth ideas are contradicted by physics."

[wesmorris]

Re: wes

/point was that, if we can, it is not unreasonable to think that other sentient beings are doing the same

of course spookz, but do they exist? can they travel far enough to get here? did they surivive their own hitlers, etc? do you realize the upcoming risks? man, the risks involved as you increase the phase of society (you know about the phases right?), phenomenal. if we don't kill each other off with wars, high energy experiments (not like those now days, I'm talking trying to harnes power on the level of the planet, like a single source with enough juice to power the whole planet) are likely to eradicate us in the blink of an eye.

maybe they transcended into a dimension/form that we can't even relate to? maybe you don't even get considered until your species makes the transcendence... maybe a LOT of unimaginable shit.

sure it's reasonable to think that we would be doing what we are doing, but until we can at least confirm the existence of ONE ET society, it is not reasonable to believe anythign about it.

do you know how ignorant you sound? have you any comprehension of the incredible vast scale of the universe? talk about a need in a haystack. man, we're a lepton in a need in stack of hay the size of the universe. hell that's probably an over-estimation of size.

/i fail to see the relevance. what about it? is this supposed to shock and awe? perhaps fall to my knees and give thanks?

why would you think i would want you to fall to your knees? what the hell is wrong with you? have a civil goddamn conversation without being paranoid for chrissake. i don't give a damn what you worship asshole, you're my bro, i'm just sharing my goddamn opinion with you. don't ask for it if you don't like it. you are a moron if you don't see the relevance. the need in the haystack thing is US dumbass. how to you find US in something the size of the universe? should we just assume ET
cares because you think we do?

i have no idea if ET exists, but if he does he almost surely isn't HERE. He could be, but I got no reason to think he is.

/that is an unecessary assumption and is not logical either.

on what basis? it's not an assumption, it's an opinion paranoid jackass! it is exactly logical with known shit abou tthe universe. it may not jive with your goddamn ignorant et assuming ass but that is not my problem! i'm your fucking bro trying to tell you what i know! i don't give a fuck if you buy it! it's just what I think. if you respect me, you'll give a fuck what I think, take it under consideration and form your own goddamn opinion. i appreciate what you think as well, but i've been there done that! i've aged, thought more, seen more and decided that it's all a racket for the most part. it'd be badass to play with ET toys but so far i'm stuck with my x-box and geforce3. that's cool with me. *shrug*

goddamn paranoid fucker.

/you are flailing b/w two extremes here. et exists/et does not exist. if he does he is here/if he does he is not here

*sigh* those are not two extremes spookz. those are two facets of the same idea. a culture has to survive the eperiements leading to FTL in order to use it. are you paying attention? am i speaking swaheli again? i get in a hurry sometimes... did i type something crazy? if you're gonna call me flailing back it up.

so you have no reason to think he is here. do you have a reason to think he is there? (hey you started it)

the point is to look for terrestrial reasons first.

/and if they are inadequate? what do you do?

about what? about explaining it? uhm, I dunno, depends on your resources/priorities/conviction.

 

[wesmorris]

Re: wes

Originally posted by spookz
i appreciate your honesty. i'll also spare you my thoughts on that

I am always honest and frequently wrong.

 

[VRob]

Re: Re: wes

Originally posted by wesmorris
how to you find US in something the size of the universe? should we just assume ET cares because you think we do?

We would not be to hard to find if ET was out there. In fact, we've been broadcasting our existence for all to hear for well over 50 years. We even upped the ante so to speak with our nuclear weapons testing during the 40's.

When we aquire the means to travel to distance stars, we will.

When/If we discover life living on one of those planets from a distant star, we will explore.

So IMO,

IF ET is out there, and has the means to travel to distant stars, they've likely been here.

The question, "why would they be interested in us?" is insane.

 

[wesmorris]

Re: Re: Re: wes

/We would not be to hard to find if ET was out there. In fact, we've been broadcasting our existence for all to hear for well over 50 years. We even upped the ante so to speak with our nuclear weapons testing during the 40's.

50 light years eh? That's not very far in terms of universal terms eh? Pretty local, but within that sphere you have a point... it's just not a very big one (as it is correlated with the size). That's a pretty small sphere.

/When we aquire the means to travel to distance stars, we will.

Sorry but fucking DER. The question is more "if" than "when" as attempting to acquire such ability is a highly risky bizness. I'd bet it can be done, but maybe we all die trying to find it. I'd say you can't risk doing most of the experiments it'd take to build something capable of reaching the stars anywhere near the solar system. If you create a mini-black hole or the equivalent type of energy, you're risking the entire solar system ya know?

/When/If we discover life living on one of those planets from a distant star, we will explore.

Again, you've mastered the obvious!

/So IMO, IF ET is out there, and has the means to travel to distant stars, they've likely been here.

Ya see it's THAT statement that is insane to me, given the sheer volume of the universe. Not even distance but number of stars. Well, distance and time too.

Oh and again, you have about zilch evidence to backup the ability to travel to the stars is possible. Lots of good imagination stuff and I'm into it.. but still, if you're making realistic guesstimatoins about the likelihood of ET visits, it's important to consider that as a complete unknown, not an assumption you make based on your knowledge of science fiction.

/The question, "why would they be interested in us?" is insane.



That is presumptuous as hell. You think you're interesting eh?




Now that I stop and think abou tit for a second I would say that there is simply no way to know if there is a top end to comprehension, as such, any bullshit presumptions we make in attempts to estimate probabilities blah blah are all wholly pointless. We can either prove that they're here or we can't, end of story.

I will give you that it's interesting and somewhat fun to fantasize about this stuff. Again, I want to take a ride on a badass spaceship goddamnit. I think however, it's unwise consider it more than fantasy while you have no tangible basis under which to do so.. but that's just my opinion of watching out for good mental health. You will do as you must!

Further though, I was wondering last night: what story which people think "aliens did it" couldn't be substituted with "god did it" and you couldn't reject or defend the argument any better.

 

[VRob]

Re: Re: Re: Re: wes

Originally posted by wesmorris
50 light years eh? That's not very far in terms of universal terms eh? Pretty local, but within that sphere you have a point... it's just not a very big one (as it is correlated with the size). That's a pretty small sphere.

Do you have any idea how many stars are within 50 light years of our planet?

/When we aquire the means to travel to distance stars, we will./

Sorry but fucking DER.

I'm glad we agree on something. Unfortunately, this falls into one of the skeptics favorites.... 'Why would they want to visit us'.

/When/If we discover life living on one of those planets from a distant star, we will explore./

Again, you've mastered the obvious!

See previous response. My point here is that when we are capable, we will explore the universe. Why is it so hard to think that maybe other civilizations are already doing it.

/So IMO, IF ET is out there, and has the means to travel to distant stars, they've likely been here./

Ya see it's THAT statement that is insane to me, given the sheer volume of the universe. Not even distance but number of stars. Well, distance and time too.

Finally, the old "They can't get here from there because of the vast distances". I was wondering when this excuse would rear its ugly head.

Oh and again, you have about zilch evidence to backup the ability to travel to the stars is possible

The evidence that we've been visited is available. Is there available proof? No. But if there was, we wouldn't be having these discussions.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EVIDENCE & PROOF!

/The question, "why would they be interested in us?" is insane. /

That is presumptuous as hell. You think you're interesting eh?

Who said anything about me being interesting??

BTW: Yes I am.

Our Civilization gets excited at the possiblity of micros found on Mars? Are they interesting?

When we eventually find life outside of our planet/Solar system, ect... do you actually think we're going to as ourselves.... Hmmm, this race is kind of boring. I don't think we should explore its world, culture.... Another !

Life everywhere is worth exploring. In fact, with our War-mongering attitudes, I would think anyone stumbling across us would want to keep close tabs on what we're doing.

1. Our #1 pastime is killing each other.

2. We're actually open about our plans to militarize space!

Can't you see this?

Further though, I was wondering last night: what story which people think "aliens did it" couldn't be substituted with "god did it" and you couldn't reject or defend the argument any better.

Food for thought for all those who follow the Bible.

 

[(Q)]

Finally, the old "They can't get here from there because of the vast distances". I was wondering when this excuse would rear its ugly head.

IT is sheer ignorance to refuse to accept facts that you assume to be excuses and then fail to provide any explanation.

The evidence that we've been visited is available.

Thre is no hard evidence - the so-called evidence available is little more than exagerated hyperbole.

 

[VRob]

Originally posted by (Q)
Finally, the old "They can't get here from there because of the vast distances". I was wondering when this excuse would rear its ugly head.

IT is sheer ignorance to refuse to accept facts that you assume to be excuses and then fail to provide any explanation.

The evidence that we've been visited is available.

Thre is no hard evidence - the so-called evidence available is little more than exagerated hyperbole.

You are an egotistical Moron Q.

This sheer ignorance you babble on about has been provided to you in the Belgian Incident thread. How did you respond?

"It's impossible for a vehicle to move at those speeds and to manuever in that manner, thus, the entire incident is null and void.

It doesn't get any more IGNORANT than that.

 

[(Q)]

Rob claims I said:

"It's impossible for a vehicle to move at those speeds and to manuever in that manner, thus, the entire incident is null and void.

It is indeed a sad state of affairs when believers must resort to lying to make their point.

 

[VRob]

Originally posted by (Q)
Rob claims I said:

"It's impossible for a vehicle to move at those speeds and to manuever in that manner, thus, the entire incident is null and void.

It is indeed a sad state of affairs when believers must resort to lying to make their point.

Then why don't you tell us what you said on the Belgian incident.

Was it a crazy foreign Govmt?

Mass delusion?

Falty radar on multiple ground and multiple air radar devices?

Falty video cameras?

Hoax purpotrated on the Belgian Govmt?

Or, all of the above?

If I remember correctly, you simply said "It's impossible for a vehicle to perform those manuevers and speeds. Please explain where I was mistaken.

 

[(Q)]

If I remember correctly, you simply said "It's impossible for a vehicle to perform those manuevers and speeds. Please explain where I was mistaken.

No, you don't remember correctly.

 

[spookz]

vrob

it cannot be that hard to refer back to the thread for the quote. you are paraphrasing his words. you have to make that clear otherwise it can be denied on a technicality.

secondly, even tho you are free to make your opinion know here, you gotta figure out you are merely being redundant if you pursue the line. q's position is known. there is no need to pry something out again.

2inq has some questions. your argument merely distracts from this. another page or so, it will be forgotton. that would be unfortunate and this thread would have been a waste of time

you focus on personalities. dont! while it is fun it gets tedious after awhile.

do not feed the troll.
you have been warned

lets focus on interstellar travel. the belgium crap has its own thread
thanks

 

[spookz]

wes

of course spookz, but do they exist?

do you know of any biological lifeforms that inhabit the universe? if you do, how much of a stretch is it to imagine an additional lifeform?

can they travel far enough to get here?

this is like asking you...wes, can you travel far enough to get to la. do you mean if you are capable of making the trip? ok. exactly how do you presume to find this little nugget of info? first, their very existence is in doubt but yet you wanna throw questions at them? the only way these personal factoids can be discerned is if one takes for granted that et does in fact exist. i dont think you do that but yet you persist in this line of questioning.

i can call you up and inquire about your health. do you have a hotline to et?

if we can figure out how to travel b/w the stars, other sentient life (if present) can probably figure it out as well. making that assumption will not be that much of a step to take given that we now know of a propulsive system that enable feasible trips in accordance with the peculiarities of human biology (lifespan).

did they surivive their own hitlers, etc?

i suppose you will be wondering about alien genitalia next

do you realize the upcoming risks? man, the risks involved as you increase the phase of society (you know about the phases right?), phenomenal. if we don't kill each other off with wars, high energy experiments (not like those now days, I'm talking trying to harnes power on the level of the planet, like a single source with enough juice to power the whole planet) are likely to eradicate us in the blink of an eye.

i don't believe it is possible to digress from the subject matter anymore than this. well done

maybe they transcended into a dimension/form that we can't even relate to? maybe you don't even get considered until your species makes the transcendence... maybe a LOT of unimaginable shit.

you have absolutely no clue as to what "reasonable assumptions" would indicate. i am not surprised as you usually bring out some "everything is subjective" stuff at this stage. (the lunatics opinion is given equal weight) why should we not be methodical about the investigation? let us take it step by step. consider a then resolve. move to b then resolve. if a is unresolvable, is b dependent on a or can we move on to it? here is your m.o.....sajfapoifhaopEfnadfguifhdkvn. how does one make progress in your world?

sure it's reasonable to think that we would be doing what we are doing,

holy cow, what are you smoking? (hey wes, i am typing while i am typing)

but until we can at least confirm the existence of ONE ET society, it is not reasonable to believe anythign about it.

really? if i say et is not a marshmallow, would you believe that? if i say et is not a star, would you believe that? do you get the gist? rule out some stuff and narrow possibilities

funny, the larger the universe the greater the probability of other sentience. yes or no? whose case are you making here here?

you are a moron if you don't see the relevance. the need in the haystack thing is US dumbass. how to you find US in something the size of the universe? should we just assume ET cares because you think we do?

why is this relevant? why are et's motives the issue here? these kinds of questions have prior assumptions attached to them....et is presumed to have feelings, et lives at the end of the universe and not right next door......do you see why it is useless to speculate in this manner?

again you wanna divine et's intent, his motivations before establishing his existence

on what basis? it's not an assumption, it's an opinion

on second thoughts it sounds like the ramblings of a lunatic. you just walk around in circles.

paranoid jackass!

what is paranoid about me questioning you?

it is exactly logical with known shit abou tthe universe.

(but if he does he almost surely isn't HERE. )

ok how is this known? why is et not here? explain the logic. what secrets are you privy to?

it may not jive with your goddamn ignorant et assuming ass but that is not my problem!

and i said it was?

i don't give a fuck if you buy it! it's just what I think. if you respect me, you'll give a fuck what I think, take it under consideration and form your own goddamn opinion.

so why do you get so mad and defensive when i tell you what i think of it?. after all aint we supposed to exchange ideas and debate on em? you want me to accept your shit and shut the hell up, is that it?

all this for...flailing? i like that. hop this way puppet!

i appreciate what you think as well, but i've been there done that! i've aged, thought more, seen more and decided that it's all a racket for the most part.

sorry, in that case i fear regression. what have you done btw? dont tell me you have been chasing ufo? what about the little part? (as opposed to "most part"

how so? how come you are so mad? aint i cool? kinda unusual yes?

*sigh* those are not two extremes spookz. those are two facets of the same idea.

ok. lemme try. if i am at gf's, i am not at work/if i am at work, i am not at gf's........a match? again..if i am hungry. i eat/if i am not hungry, i dont eat....?

now would you perhaps wanna ask what my point is?. well that is exactly what i wanna ask you. stating the obvious is a waste of time

a culture has to survive the eperiements leading to FTL in order to use it. are you paying attention? am i speaking swaheli again?

yes you are. you rap obvious shit and anchor it to a scientific procedure. lets revisit....

have no idea if ET exists, but if he does he almost surely isn't HERE. He could be, but I got no reason to think he is.

you follow this with....

a culture has to survive the eperiements leading to FTL in order to use it.

non sequiter ja? what's this about survive? oh... i see...I'm talking trying to harnes power on the level of the planet, like a single source with enough juice to power the whole planet) are likely to eradicate us in the blink of an eye.

heh heh do you listen to yourself? the immensity!! we are a speck!! eradicate!! armageddon! the universe! the magnitude!

you are shocked and awed at it all to the point of pathology. what happened wes? were you born yesterday? discovering the wonders of the universe for the first time?.

if you're gonna call me flailing back it up.

i did not call you that. it is an action. you move from one point to another. an action is attributed to you

 

[Sci-Phenomena]

"maybe they transcended into a dimension/form that we can't even relate to? maybe you don't even get considered until your species makes the transcendence... maybe a LOT of unimaginable shit." <-Wes

Hey, there is only one dimension, its called reality, welcome back. The lists of "maybes" and "what ifs" are insanely long and usually stupid, using the "what if" justification is the most idiotic way of trying to prove something.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by manmadeflyingsaucer
Hey, there is only one dimension, its called reality, welcome back.

Surely you're not serious. The 'reality' you speak of consist of at least four dimensions and as many as 11 or something, depending on who you ask (and I mean credible scientists working on string theory, quantum loop gravity, blah blah).

Originally posted by manmadeflyingsaucer
The lists of "maybes" and "what ifs" are insanely long and usually stupid, using the "what if" justification is the most idiotic way of trying to prove something.

*sigh*

what? where is the actual argument you're presenting? i say your claim is irrelevant to my comments, as I've only provides ridiculous what if's to illustrate the ridiculous conclusion that has been reached. further, i'm not trying to prove anything really... as it's impossible to prove. actually, my entired ramblings here are basically summarized by "it's impossible to prove without proof". there is nowhere near the evidence it takes to prove something like aliens are visiting us. it's possible, but doubtful.

 

[wesmorris]

Re: wes

/do you know of any biological lifeforms that inhabit the universe? if you do, how much of a stretch is it to imagine an additional lifeform?

not much but there is no evidence. i'd bet for sure there at least has been life out there. just a what level of development and proximity to earth? are there any alive out there now? almost surely.... but with no evidence, it's basically fantasy to claim this as given. you see spookz: no evidence -> no conclusios. I suppose a lot of poeple telling you about it being true though is plenty good enough evidence for you? fine by me.

/this is like asking you...wes, can you travel far enough to get to la.

No, it isn't. You need to study some goddamn cosmology/physics. I'm not saying it's impossible but your comparison is wholly invalid.

/do you mean if you are capable of making the trip? ok.

I don't see how that is different.

/exactly how do you presume to find this little nugget of info?

You are the one claiming it's probably been done already. I only brought it up to illustrate your presumption.

/first, their very existence is in doubt but yet you wanna throw questions at them?

LOL. Yeah. That's right. Surely you're not serious.

/the only way these personal factoids can be discerned is if one takes for granted that et does in fact exist. i dont think you do that but yet you persist in this line of questioning.

It is one of a chain of unanswered questions, yet you seem to feel comfortable ignoring it and just jumping right to "ET is here!". Is that right or whassup?

/i can call you up and inquire about your health. do you have a hotline to et?

Why do you persist is retarded BS? It is not an equivalent question. Any question regarding the chain of leaps of faith it takes to believe that ET is visiting is fair game to ask of a believer don't you think? Do I have to specify where I am in the chain all the time? Seems like you're keeping track fairly well, so you waste my time fucking with me about obvious bullshit? You must nto think it's fair so why?

/if we can figure out how to travel b/w the stars, other sentient life (if present) can probably figure it out as well. making that assumption will not be that much of a step to take given that we now know of a propulsive system that enable feasible trips in accordance with the peculiarities of human biology (lifespan).

no, we don't. there are theoretical systems that could accomplish that, but we don't know it. so we don't know if we can figure out how to go to the stars, so scratch any assumption you would base on that, because as of yet it's unwarrented. if you want to make the assumption, that's fine, but to get the "et is here" you gotta make what i deem an unnacceptable chain of assumptions. again, it's not impossible, just unlikely.

/i suppose you will be wondering about alien genitalia next

what kind of BS is this man? why you fucking with me? that is a fair goddamn observation. survival of a species would be seemingly quite rare beyond certain stages of development. hard to say really since we're the only one we know of at this point. i'd welcome news of others.

/i don't believe it is possible to digress from the subject matter anymore than this. well done

idiot. again, this is a perfectly valid observation about the development of a species (which is part of ET existing to get here), and you try to pretend it's freakin nonsense. does that make it easier for you to believe or something?

/you have absolutely no clue as to what "reasonable assumptions" would indicate.

you trolling bitch, fuck you.

/i am not surprised as you usually bring out some "everything is subjective" stuff at this stage. (the lunatics opinion is given equal weight) why should we not be methodical about the investigation?

show me where i said or implied "we shoudln't be methodological about the investigation".

stupid bitch.

you're the fuckign moron implying that all goddamn day.

if you WERE methodological about it, you'd be forced into the same conclusion that the goddamn paradigm comes to: INCONCLUSIVE DUE TO LACK OF EVIDENCE.

IDIOT.

man you're a dumbass unworthy of my response.

I waste no more time on you fuckhead.

 

[spookz]

if you WERE methodological about it, you'd be forced into the same conclusion that the goddamn paradigm comes to: INCONCLUSIVE DUE TO LACK OF EVIDENCE

i claim et beyond a shadow of a doubt i presume? where?

*whats up with this out of control emotions anyway? chill! i bet you are shakin with rage ja?

 

[spookz]

wacky wes

I waste no more time on you fuckhead.

excellent. in matters of et, you rule nothing in or out. everything imaginable is possible. i cannot think of more useless approach to the topics that comes up in the pseudo science forums. you also make your attitude quite clear.

Originally posted by wesmorris
it's just that spooky baby, i'm just not buying anyting ET until it can be shown to me, firsthand. even then i'll still doubt until I'm riding on the spaceship talking with SLKVLWE!!!#!#$ from LF!!!KF!, or he's projectiing shit into my brain. EVen then I'm not buying it until it's been long enough to convince me that it's not a total hallucination.

why so hardcore?
-because it's something that i think people are trying to pimp me. there's a lot of money in it for the pimps selling books to perpetuate it.... not to mention the emotional connection a lot of people make with it. it's myseterious and high-tech... that makes most people easy prey, especially giving the godless a place to look for interesting meaningful stuff that doesn't make you do homework (besides indulging in the mystery, which is fun).
- because it's beyond the realm of my experience. i've heard a lot of trash talked about it, but I've never seen a single shred of anything to back it up. sure i've seen a lot of stuff via multimedia this or that, but I have seen ZILCH firsthand. naturally then the longer i go without anythign, the loger i think "what a crock" regardless of who says what.

like i said...pathology. your trauma is evident.

 

[wesmorris]

*whats up with this out of control emotions anyway? chill! i bet you are shakin with rage ja?

I wouldn't want to deny you the fruits of your trolling.



And no, I don't rule anything out, I think of things in terms of what is likely. I don't think aliens visiting earth likely for the reasons I've stated over and over due to your lack of reading comprehension or that you simply don't get what I'm saying.

After having basically said "i don't rule anytingi out" for this entire thread and then supporting why I think certain things toi be likely than others, you finally reach the conclusion that I don't rule anything out. Fucking brilliant.

You accuse Q of trolling, yet to me you appear to be doing nothing but trolling with apparently intentional misconstruance of half of what I say. One post you're like "oh well I disagree but yeah that's cool you're honest about it" and the next you're like "you small minded fucking bigot! you are stupid and don't know what you're talking about!". Seems to me like fucking trolling, you just trying to evoke emotional bullshit for your amusement. So you get it and then pretend you don't expect it?

dude. what has gone wrong here? quit fucking with me.

 

[wesmorris]

Re: wacky wes

/excellent. in matters of et, you rule nothing in or out. everything imaginable is possible. i cannot think of more useless approach to the topics that comes up in the pseudo science forums. you also make your attitude quite clear.

and what is that spookz? that people who think ET is visiting us are kind of loopy? what is my attitude spookz? you've made yours quite clear as well, but I haven't fucked with you about it. i'd prefer not to and would rather just drop this bullshit, as it is starting to annoy me.

/like i said...pathology. your trauma is evident.

my fucking trauma?

my trauma arised from banging my functional brain against YOUR THICK GODDAMN SKULL.

 

[spookz]

Re: Re: wacky wes

and what is that spookz? that people who think ET is visiting us are kind of loopy? what is my attitude spookz?

here, i'll post it again since you missed it the first time

[i'm just not buying anyting ET until it can be shown to me, firsthand. even then i'll still doubt until I'm riding on the spaceship talking with SLKVLWE!!!#!#$ from LF!!!KF!, or he's projectiing shit into my brain. EVen then I'm not buying it until it's been long enough to convince me that it's not a total hallucination.

you are a mass of contradictions wes.

you've made yours quite clear as well,

i did ask you as to what is clear and where it is asserted. do you have to invent something up?

but I haven't fucked with you about it.

unfortunately you think i have

i'd prefer not to and would rather just drop this bullshit, as it is starting to annoy me.

i think it is too late for you fella
you just went ape shit for no reason. kinda touchy i think... see here..

you are a moron if you don't see the relevance.(wes)

no i dont. you can cuss all you want. you are convinced of the rightness of your approach and cannot accept i dont.

my trauma arised from banging my functional brain against YOUR THICK GODDAMN SKULL.

well who's the stupid little boy then?

*to think "flail" incited this vicious diatribe