Pyramids and aliens

Sgal

Principessa
Registered Senior Member
I read somewhere that scientists from all over the world tried to build a pyramid but could not do it. Every time they tried it kept falling. Even when they used present sophisticated technology and machines they could not copy the exact architecture.
I have also read that the reason the pyramids could not be built was because the Eygptians had help from aliens. Eygptians scientists do not agree at all on this theory and get mad if the theory is even brought up because it goes against everything they have been researching of their history and the knowledge they believe to accurate right now.
There is also the explanation that the reason we can't build a pyramid now is because the Egyptians along with some other cultures possessed high level of technology that was lost over the ages however there is the question of how it was obtained.
Any opinions on the subject?
 
Sgal said:
I read somewhere that scientists from all over the world tried to build a pyramid but could not do it. Every time they tried it kept falling. Even when they used present sophisticated technology and machines they could not copy the exact architecture.
I have also read that the reason the pyramids could not be built was because the Eygptians had help from aliens. Eygptians scientists do not agree at all on this theory and get mad if the theory is even brought up because it goes against everything they have been researching of their history and the knowledge they believe to accurate right now.
There is also the explanation that the reason we can't build a pyramid now is because the Egyptians along with some other cultures possessed high level of technology that was lost over the ages however there is the question of how it was obtained.
Any opinions on the subject?

Yea......If you want to have a good pyramid built nowadays, you should check out the yellow pages in an eygptian phone book. Look under 'Cairopractors'. It's back breaking work building a pyramid, isn't it?:D
 
The pyramids of Giza, and other pyramids to the north and south, are laid out in a plan to reproduce the pattern of the stars in the constellation Orion. It is believed that there existed a unified "master plan" that originated thousands of years before the pyramid age of the Fourth Dynasty. The Giza layout is an expression of this plan.

It's quite clear that the technological knowhow that constructed these pyramids were beyond human thinking at that time and their knowledge of astronomy was astonishing.

The Dogon tribe in Mali "are cultural, and probably also physical, descendants of Lemnian Greeks who claimed descent 'from the Argonauts', went to Libya, migrated westwards as Garamantians (who were described to Herodotus), were driven south, and after many, many centuries reached the River Niger in Mali and intermarried with local Negroes.
"The Dogon preserve as their most sacred mystery tradition one which was brought from pre-dynastic Egypt by 'Dannaos' to the Greeks.'"

The Dogon tribe perform an elaborate ceremony every sixty years that they say is associated with the fifty year cycle of Sirius A and B. One has to wonder why the ceremony is ten years longer than the star’s cycle, but the Dogon say that this sixty year cycle is `related to’ the actual 50 year period. Records of the ceremonial masks they used show the ceremonies being held all the way back to the thirteenth century. But if it took such a large telescope to see the companion star, how did the Dogon know about Sirius B?

They knew the existence of Sirius B, a white dwarf of extreme density belonging to the Sirius system as a twin star of Sirius A, and back then mostly unknown and barely visible with a very powerful telescope. In fact, it was not until 1970 that Sirius B was photographed for the first time by Irving Lindenblad.

"The Dogon say that their astronomical knowledge was given to them by the Nommos, amphibious beings sent to earth from the Sirius star system for the benefit of humankind. The name comes form a Dogon word meaning 'to make one drink', and the Nommos are also called Masters of the Water, The Monitors, and The Instructors. They came to earth somewhere to the northeast of the Dogon's present homeland. When their vessel landed (after a 'spinning or whirling' descent and with a great noise and wind), it skidded to a stop, scoring the ground....At that time a new star (perhaps a mother ship) was seen in the sky."

The ancient egyptians couldn't have possibly engineered the construction and geometry of the pyramids without outside help.

Some say the pyramids with stunning similarity to Egypt and America
are designed to harness the Earth's magnetic field.
Considered to be a kooky, eclectic genre of new age pseudo-science,
those who investigate the phenomena are often taken less than seriously but this simple geometric shape has been proven to focus amazing energies.

As is well known there are literally hundreds of pyramids of various styles scattered over the Earth, in Europe, Africa, the Middle East and Far East, Southeast Asia and South Pacific, and in North and South America. A few of these sites demonstrating the different styles are:

Iraq: The reconstructed ziggurat-pyramid at Ur, in ancient Sumer.

Egypt: The step pyramid at Saqqara.

Egypt: The smooth-walled pyramids at Giza. Hancock and Bauval (1996) suggest that the ‘ground plan’ of the three great pyramids was physically established in 10,500 bc, but that the pyramids were built around 2,500 bc. This supports the notion that the pyramid base rock with its underground chamber was an early AA terminal, and the Sphinx was the associated landmark easily identified from space.

Mexico: The highly decorated step pyramids at Chichen-Itza, Monte Alban, and elsewhere. In the Temple of Inscriptions at Palenque, a shaft runs from the tomb up to the temple floor, similar to some of the Egyptian pyramids. There was initially a 40 ft "comb" on the top. Was this an additional identifying marker?

Mexico: The unusual elliptical pyramid at Uxmal.

Mexico: The huge, unexcavated pyramid at Cholula (Fig 4-1), in the shadow of the volcano, Popocatepetl ("El Popo"). Its ancient name, Tlachihualtepetl, means "man-made mountain". On Quetzalcoatl’s pilgrimage his first stop was Cholula, which means ‘the place of flight’ in Nahuatl. The huge "Piramide Tepanapa", 200 ft high and 1300 ft on a side, is the largest ancient pyramid in the Americas, and possibly the largest in the world. The earliest construction has been traced to 200 bc. It was covered with dirt to hide it from the invading Spaniards and a small shrine was placed at the top, which the Spanish replaced with a church (Fig 4-1). The small portion which has been excavated reveals remarkable masonry.
Mexico: Tres Zapotes, an Olmec site (1300 – 400 bc), was the first adobe-brick pyramid site in Mesoamerica. (Mystery buffs please note: Before the arrival of Cortez ALL of the Olmec sites were destroyed, except El Tijin, which had been abandoned!)


Mexico: The truncated cone pyramid of Cuicuilco. In 1917 Manuel Gamio, excavating off the road from Mexico City to Cuernavaca, found an overgrown hill called ‘Cuicuilco’ enveloped by pre-historic lava streams. It turned out to be an enormous ancient pyramid or truncated cone with four galleries and central staircase. It is one of the few remaining round stepped pyramids. The base is 370 ft and it is about 60 ft high now, although it was originally much higher. Archeologist Paul Heinrich reports the age to be 800 to 600 bc, not 6000 bc as reported by others. (Miller, 2000)

Mexico: The beautiful miniature pyramid at Cecilia, D.F.

Mexico: The platform-pyramids at Teotenango, Tenayaca, and Tula.

Mexico: The multi-platform style of the Pyramid of the Sun, Teotihuacan. In his discussion of Teotihuacan, John Michel (1995) quotes another researcher: "During the 1970s Hugh Harleston, Jr …established that ‘the basic unit of measurement at Teotihuacan was 1.0594 meters, the same unit which represents the ‘Jewish rod’ of 3.4757 ft., the same unit which represents the width of the Stonehenge lintels, a six-millionth part of the earth’s polar radius…’"

Guatemala: The huge pre-classic (150 bc-150 ad) Mayan site of El Mirador with its dozens of pyramids, including the Tigre Pyramid rising 18 stories high, probably the largest pyramid ever built by the Maya.

Peru: Moche Temple of the Sun. The earlier Moche built this temple-pyramid style pyramid from 140 million adobe bricks.

Peru: Sipan Pyramid. This Moche pyramid-tomb near the town of Sipan proves that some of the early SA pyramids were tombs, as in Egypt and Mesoamerica.

Peru: Pyramids of Cahuachi. A ceremonial site comprised of six pyramids, the highest being about 70 ft, overlooking a walled court of 4050 sq yards. (Morrison, 1988). Hadingham (1987) mentions that the "great temple" was a stepped pyramid. He quotes Helaine Silverman’s estimate that the period of most activity at Cahuachi was short lived, about 200 years, and the site was mysteriously abandoned around 200 ad, along with other several other important sites.

Peru: The pyramids of Tucume. "Covering over 540 acres and including 26 major pyramids as well as myriad smaller structures…first built around 1100 ad by people of the Lambayeque culture…" The largest of the adobe brick pyramids, Huaca Larga, is 2300 ft long, 910 ft wide and 65 ft high. (Heyerdahl, 1995). Robert Schoch (1999) writes, "The largest of the pyramids, called Tucume…was only a little over 200 feet high, but it contained one-third more volume that the Pyramid of Khufu at Giza."

Peru: Huaca del Sol, Moche Valley. This is a 120 ft high pyramid on the Peruvian north coast. The 1.5 million mud brick pyramid is the largest man-made mound in SA. Facing Huaca del Sol across the main plaza was a smaller mound, Huaca del Luna. The site lies at the foot of Cerro Blanco, an obvious landmark from space for this ceremonial/feeding center (Hadingham, 1987)

Bolivia: The Akapana platform-pyramid at Tiahuanaco. The Bolivian archaeologists date the site to 1580 bc. The Akapana measures 688 ft on a side and is 49 ft high. "The earthen interior was shaped like a stepped pyramid and faced with fitted stones." (Demetrio, 1983)

Java: Cani Sukuh pyramid, resembling the Mexico pyramid style (Childress, 1996). Who carried this style across the Pacific?

Ryukyu Islands: The Yonaguni underwater pyramid. This unique step-pyramid-platform, 240 ft long and 90 ft high, resting 75 ft underwater, has been dated to 8000 bc! (Dopatka, 2000)

China: The White Pyramid, near Xi’an. Hartwig Hausdorf (1998) says there are 90-100 pyramids in China, near Xi’an, the tallest being about 200 ft. Xi’an incidentally is the site of the amazing ‘Terracotta Army’ of Qin Shi Huang.

Polynesia: "modest pyramids" at Tongatabu; a temple-pyramid on Tahiti; the Langi stepped pyramid-platform at Tauhala (a large stone, 24 x 7 ft and weighing 30-40 tons, is in the wall).

Ancient pyramids are also found on Samoa and Java. (Childress, 1996)

Greece: Pyramid of Hellinikon, near Argos. The author writes, "…built in the style reminiscent of cyclopean walls…" Its base is 15 x 13 meters, and the tallest wall still standing it only 14 ft. From the photos it probably would have stood about 10 meters high when completed. Thermoluminescent analysis of the pyramid in 1997 yielded a construction date of 2720 bc, older than the archeologists state for the Cheops pyramid! (Tsoukalow, 2000)

Canary Islands: The pyramids of Guimar. Thor Heyerdahl writes, "…They were painstakingly built step-pyramids, constructed according to similar principles as those of Mexico, Peru, and ancient Mesopotamia."

United States: Monk’s pyramid-mound at Cahokia, Illinois, a mud brick platform-pyramid. A large stone wall or room has recently been discovered inside the mound, but has not been excavated as of Oct 2000.

Yonaguni: Situated between the East China Sea and the Philippine Sea, about 300 miles from Okinawa, is the island of Yonaguni-Jima. Off it's coast is a huge apparently manmade (god-made?) monument about 100 ft below the surface. Its a platform pyramid 600 ft wide, 90 ft high constructed of precisely hewn megalithic stones. The pyramid, apparently a part of a ceremonial center, has been dated to 8000 bc, 5000 years before the oldest pyramid in Egypt!

Zecharia Sitchin (1985) offers a rather fantastic function for the pyramids of Giza: that they were built by the Nefilim, not by mankind, as part of a guidance grid for "the Tilmun spaceport". He develops a theory that ties the pyramids and the "sacred cities" into a guidance and communication grid for two approach corridors, one west-to-east over Mesopotamia and one west-to-east over the Sinai. "Built by the gods (Anunnaki), they were landmarks and beacons for the spaceport in Sinai, and existed long before kingship began in Egypt.
" The great pyramid was "…the mountain by which Utu ascends…".

Regarding the Giza pyramids some scholars argue that the stones were pulled up long ramps on sleds, referencing the familiar painting from the tomb of Djehutihotepe of 204 workers moving his 60 ton statute on a sled (Fig 4-5). But this only proves that this statue was moved on a sled. I am not aware of a single image or inscription which depict the methods used to construct the great pyramids. We simply do not know how it was done.

From these various styles, sizes, and composition I think we can conclude that the pyramids had several functions: burial sites, landmarks, landing sites, feeding stations, bomb shelters, and ceremonial sites; and there is evidence that many of them served several functions simultaneously. But one thing seems certain – the pyramids, platforms and mounds around the world were places where the gods and mankind came together.
 
It appears pyramids have lost fashion in the last 2,000 years. At least, as far as I know of, there aren't any pyramids currently being constructed in downtown los Angeles or Manhattan. How about Portland?
 
If pyramids were built by aliens maybe this explains why black people are so alienated. It's the alien's right? lol

I'm open minded, but any time someone brings reptillians and bug eyed aliens into the fold, it becomes religion. Until I actually see an alien, we are the aliens.
 
Sgal said:
I read somewhere that scientists from all over the world tried to build a pyramid but could not do it. Every time they tried it kept falling. Even when they used present sophisticated technology and machines they could not copy the exact architecture.
I have also read that the reason the pyramids could not be built was because the Eygptians had help from aliens. Eygptians scientists do not agree at all on this theory and get mad if the theory is even brought up because it goes against everything they have been researching of their history and the knowledge they believe to accurate right now.
There is also the explanation that the reason we can't build a pyramid now is because the Egyptians along with some other cultures possessed high level of technology that was lost over the ages however there is the question of how it was obtained.
Any opinions on the subject?


They had spirituality. That's all it takes.
 
Sgal said:
I read somewhere that scientists from all over the world tried to build a pyramid but could not do it....

Curious y'should mention this reading thing. I remember reading somewhere once that if y'touch the stuff found inside golf balls it can make you sterile and that also, masturbation makes you blind and voting Bush makes sense.

Factually inaccurate in all instances, I'm afraid. Except the masturbation thing, obviously.

No one's ever tried to re-build a pyramid. Not to the scale of the originals. They're really rather big and the cost of such an undertaking, in modern day terms, astronomical - there's simply no way in hell anyone could afford to try. So the claim in the first instances that attempts have been made, and failed, is bollocks. Completely.

There have in resent years however been quite a number of small scale constructions, using the sorts of materials, tools and employing similar construction techniques as archaeologists believe were employed in the construction of the originals. The BBC ran a series documenting the last such attempt a couple of years back.

Contrary to your claim, though modest, the structure was duly completed and stood perfectly adequately. I watched the show myself, it was actually quite fascinating. The only reason the structure no longer stands is because the university undertaking the project were given permission to erect the structure in the shadow of the Great Pyramid itself, but only on condition it be constructed as a temporary edifice that could be dismantled and removed.

The thing itself stood perfectly adequately until dismantled. No aliens required. Anyone with the slightest degree of familiarity with the subject will know perfectly well, the pyramids weren't all built in one day, neither were they all built at the same time. They didn't start by building the Great Pyramid, the pinnacle of technical achievement. Quite the opposite. Pyramid building was an engineering skill learnt by the process of trial and error over hundreds of years.

Earlier Pyramids are smaller, cruder. They did in fact fall down over time and it was in learning from these exact mistakes that generation after generation of Egyptian engineers learnt how to build these things: first well, then better, then bigger.

There's a lineal progression in engineering techniques and materials used which is admirably well documented and no mystery to anyone, except bullshit merchants who believe in extraterrestrials whom, according to such, the human race would never have learnt to wipe its own arse were it not for the intervention of technologically advanced beings teaching us how to make double-ply.

As to to Vega's post:

Vega said:
The pyramids of Giza, and other pyramids to the north and south, are laid out in a plan to reproduce the pattern of the stars in the constellation Orion.

Perfectly true.

It's quite clear that the technological knowhow that constructed these pyramids were beyond human thinking at that time and their knowledge of astronomy was astonishing.

Complete bollocks. The bladdy things are there. Patently it wasn't beyond human engineering capabilities in the slightest. Further, you'll find the night sky at the latitude, even in our modern times of air pollution and smog, is pristine and marvellously clear of a night.

One can see Orion perfectly clearly with the naked eye. Hell, I can even do that in my neck of the woods and I'm short sighted. Orion happens to be one of the most distinct constellations there is to see. The Egyptians worshipped the heavens, venerated them actually. Actually studying them in great detail came as part of the package.

The Dogon tribe perform an elaborate ceremony every sixty years that they say is associated with the fifty year cycle of Sirius A and B.

Do they, though? Actually say this?

Anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen over the course of their 25 year study, from 1931-1956, according to the author Julian Temple in his 1975 book "The Sirius Mystery" certainly seems to focus on this claim, and very little else, concerning this claim that it is the Dogon people themselves who have described this particular ceremony - however, this has never been corroborated by any other anthropologist whose ever studied the tribe.

Griaule and Dieterlen describe a world renovation ceremony, associated with the bright star Sirius (sigu tolo, "star of Sigui"), called sigui, held by the Dogon every sixty years. According to Griaule and Dieterlen the Dogon also name a companion star, po tolo "Digitaria star" (Sirius B) and describe its density and rotational characteristics. This is pretty much how the Temple version of events go.

However, unlike Temples book claims, Griaule did not attempt to explain how the Dogon could know this about a star that cannot be seen without telescopes, and he made no claims whatsoever about the antiquity of this information or of a connection with ancient Egypt.

Further, when the South African Anthropologist Walter van Beek undertook his own study of the Dogon some several years ofter Griaule and Dieterlen had published their original findings, although he could confirm the Dogons long and well established grasp of both Canis Major and parts or our own solar system, such as the moons of Jupiter and Saturn - other familiar features of the heavens were noted as being unknown to them. As for the significance of Canis and Canis Minor however, Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano in his more academically minded study of van Beeks findings notes the following concerning van Beeks own, first hand observations:

"Knowledge of the stars is not important either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. The position of the sun and the phases of the moon are more pertinent for Dogon reckoning. No Dogon outside of the circle of Griaule's informants had ever heard of sigu tolo or po tolo... Most important, no one, even within the circle of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a double star..."

Clearly, someone, somewhere isn't telling the entire truth about quite what it is the Dogon people themselves have to say on the matter.

Lets fill in a few historical blanks here. Firstly, the Dogon apparently knowing more about astronomy than a people without the aid of a telescope can possibly know.

In 1852 American missionary D.T. Stoddart wrote a letter to astronomer John Herschel that ".. at twilight, Jupiter's satellites could be seen with the naked eye and the elongated shape of Saturn also."

This isn't the first such report of such astronomical observation from the equatorial continent of Africa, further, the Dogon neither are, nor ever were, considered a "Lost" tribe. Far from it. On Griaule and Dieterlen's first arrival in 1931 the Dogon proved perfectly friendly and familiar with the notion of and presence of white Europeans, their existence and reputation first brought to the attention of the French anthropological team by the accounts of modern day missionary workers, traders and others who had enjoyed a cordial and equitable exchange of cultures between themselves and the Dogon throughout a period of long standing.

To a couple of white, western anthropologists, the idea that such a people could have known about such matters as the moons of Jupiter and Saturn's rings, given the sensibilities of the day westerners had regarding so-called "primitive" cultures, astronomical knowledge of this sort undoubtedly would have stuck the pair as odd - but an astronomer would, had one been present at the time, have been perfectly keen to point out, such bodies are infact visible to the naked eye at that latitude providing they are seen during the appropriate declinations of their respective orbits.

Sirius one hardly needs a telescope in the first place to see.

Secondly: the existence of Sirius B. From as early as the 1920's astronomers had been speculating upon the existence of a companion body orbiting around Sirius A. It's doubtful the Dogon would have the first clue about such speculation, but a visiting white, well educated, well read European may quite easily have carried that knowledge around with them in the back of his or her mind at any point.

As for the Dogons knowledge of po tolo though? Did the Dogon people actually know of its existence as certain commercially written books riding on the shirt tails of such authors as Von Daniken have claimed?

Certainly, from the point of 1972 onwards the Dogon people have most definitely been aware of the stars existence, but then since about 1972 onwards authors such as Julian Temple and others of the like have gone out of their way to find the Dogon specifically to ask them every last little thing they know about it. Prior to this no other actually serious anthropological study has ever confirmed as evident any particular significance drawn by the Dogon people to either the Stars Sirius and most certainly none whatsoever towards Sirius B as Griaule as early as the 1930's seemed alone to claim.

Predominant western attitudes towards native peoples were, as mentioned earlier, not generally high. Part and parcel of Griaule and Dieterlen's mission statement as committed anthropologists was to bring to light the splendour, complexity and cultural sophistication of so these so-called "primitive" people, a view point hardly shared at all in academic circles at the time.

Certainly, Griaule himself never claimed antiquity to the so-called "knowledge" the Dogon seemed to demonstrate, equally Griaule could quite genuinely have misinterpreted what his interpretation of what the Dogon were meaning themselves regarding the rituals they performed with his own knowledge of what our culture may mean by a similar thing.

Remember, astronomers from as early as the 1920's onwards had been speculating publically upon the binary nature of the particular star the Dogon may appear to have been representing to Guiaule and Dieterlen's surprised eyes - they did, after all seem know more about the solar system than cultural pre-supposition would most readily assume...

Perhaps the truth is down to a case of either genuine misinterpretation or possibly even a conscious choice on the part of the Frenchman to somewhat "exaggerate" certain significances pertinent to his own beliefs regarding "primitive" tribal cultures?

Certainly, the "mystery" regarding the Dogon and Sirius isn't anything like as certain and clear cut as certain individuals have made out. That concrete answers regarding the matter for certain remain somewhat unforthcoming remains perfectly true.

But do we really have to start with visiting aliens first and then work our way backwards? No possible terrestrial explanation could possibly exist to account for this intriguing enigma..?

I beg to differ.

A ;)
 
Makes you wonder why super-advanced aliens from another solar system are needed to do construction work here on planet Earth? I would think they would charge high salary and commission rates. Probably want a big bonus too after the works done. Stick with the Illegal aliens. They are much cheaper anyway. :D
 
They also had lashings of beer made from a bread would you believe, kind of like a ploughman's lunch liquidised. Quite potent by all accounts....
 
Mr Anonymous said:
They also had lashings of beer made from a bread would you believe, kind of like a ploughman's lunch liquidised. Quite potent by all accounts....

Great.....Serve me up a loaf of beer right away if you want that pyramid completed by today. Slurp! :D
 
It's supposed to be rather nice actually. Being fermented from yeast and wheat rather than hops it's apparently quite sweet, not at all bitter.
 
Mr Anonymous said:
Curious y'should mention this reading thing. I remember reading somewhere once that if y'touch the stuff found inside golf balls it can make you sterile and that also, masturbation makes you blind and voting Bush makes sense.

Factually inaccurate in all instances, I'm afraid. Except the masturbation thing, obviously.

No one's ever tried to re-build a pyramid. Not to the scale of the originals. They're really rather big and the cost of such an undertaking, in modern day terms, astronomical - there's simply no way in hell anyone could afford to try. So the claim in the first instances that attempts have been made, and failed, is bollocks. Completely.

There have in resent years however been quite a number of small scale constructions, using the sorts of materials, tools and employing similar construction techniques as archaeologists believe were employed in the construction of the originals. The BBC ran a series documenting the last such attempt a couple of years back.

Contrary to your claim, though modest, the structure was duly completed and stood perfectly adequately. I watched the show myself, it was actually quite fascinating. The only reason the structure no longer stands is because the university undertaking the project were given permission to erect the structure in the shadow of the Great Pyramid itself, but only on condition it be constructed as a temporary edifice that could be dismantled and removed.

The thing itself stood perfectly adequately until dismantled. No aliens required. Anyone with the slightest degree of familiarity with the subject will know perfectly well, the pyramids weren't all built in one day, neither were they all built at the same time. They didn't start by building the Great Pyramid, the pinnacle of technical achievement. Quite the opposite. Pyramid building was an engineering skill learnt by the process of trial and error over hundreds of years.

Earlier Pyramids are smaller, cruder. They did in fact fall down over time and it was in learning from these exact mistakes that generation after generation of Egyptian engineers learnt how to build these things: first well, then better, then bigger.

There's a lineal progression in engineering techniques and materials used which is admirably well documented and no mystery to anyone, except bullshit merchants who believe in extraterrestrials whom, according to such, the human race would never have learnt to wipe its own arse were it not for the intervention of technologically advanced beings teaching us how to make double-ply.

As to to Vega's post:



Perfectly true.



Complete bollocks. The bladdy things are there. Patently it wasn't beyond human engineering capabilities in the slightest. Further, you'll find the night sky at the latitude, even in our modern times of air pollution and smog, is pristine and marvellously clear of a night.

One can see Orion perfectly clearly with the naked eye. Hell, I can even do that in my neck of the woods and I'm short sighted. Orion happens to be one of the most distinct constellations there is to see. The Egyptians worshipped the heavens, venerated them actually. Actually studying them in great detail came as part of the package.



Do they, though? Actually say this?

Anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen over the course of their 25 year study, from 1931-1956, according to the author Julian Temple in his 1975 book "The Sirius Mystery" certainly seems to focus on this claim, and very little else, concerning this claim that it is the Dogon people themselves who have described this particular ceremony - however, this has never been corroborated by any other anthropologist whose ever studied the tribe.

Griaule and Dieterlen describe a world renovation ceremony, associated with the bright star Sirius (sigu tolo, "star of Sigui"), called sigui, held by the Dogon every sixty years. According to Griaule and Dieterlen the Dogon also name a companion star, po tolo "Digitaria star" (Sirius B) and describe its density and rotational characteristics. This is pretty much how the Temple version of events go.

However, unlike Temples book claims, Griaule did not attempt to explain how the Dogon could know this about a star that cannot be seen without telescopes, and he made no claims whatsoever about the antiquity of this information or of a connection with ancient Egypt.

Further, when the South African Anthropologist Walter van Beek undertook his own study of the Dogon some several years ofter Griaule and Dieterlen had published their original findings, although he could confirm the Dogons long and well established grasp of both Canis Major and parts or our own solar system, such as the moons of Jupiter and Saturn - other familiar features of the heavens were noted as being unknown to them. As for the significance of Canis and Canis Minor however, Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano in his more academically minded study of van Beeks findings notes the following concerning van Beeks own, first hand observations:

"Knowledge of the stars is not important either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. The position of the sun and the phases of the moon are more pertinent for Dogon reckoning. No Dogon outside of the circle of Griaule's informants had ever heard of sigu tolo or po tolo... Most important, no one, even within the circle of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a double star..."

Clearly, someone, somewhere isn't telling the entire truth about quite what it is the Dogon people themselves have to say on the matter.

Lets fill in a few historical blanks here. Firstly, the Dogon apparently knowing more about astronomy than a people without the aid of a telescope can possibly know.

In 1852 American missionary D.T. Stoddart wrote a letter to astronomer John Herschel that ".. at twilight, Jupiter's satellites could be seen with the naked eye and the elongated shape of Saturn also."

This isn't the first such report of such astronomical observation from the equatorial continent of Africa, further, the Dogon neither are, nor ever were, considered a "Lost" tribe. Far from it. On Griaule and Dieterlen's first arrival in 1931 the Dogon proved perfectly friendly and familiar with the notion of and presence of white Europeans, their existence and reputation first brought to the attention of the French anthropological team by the accounts of modern day missionary workers, traders and others who had enjoyed a cordial and equitable exchange of cultures between themselves and the Dogon throughout a period of long standing.

To a couple of white, western anthropologists, the idea that such a people could have known about such matters as the moons of Jupiter and Saturn's rings, given the sensibilities of the day westerners had regarding so-called "primitive" cultures, astronomical knowledge of this sort undoubtedly would have stuck the pair as odd - but an astronomer would, had one been present at the time, have been perfectly keen to point out, such bodies are infact visible to the naked eye at that latitude providing they are seen during the appropriate declinations of their respective orbits.

Sirius one hardly needs a telescope in the first place to see.

Secondly: the existence of Sirius B. From as early as the 1920's astronomers had been speculating upon the existence of a companion body orbiting around Sirius A. It's doubtful the Dogon would have the first clue about such speculation, but a visiting white, well educated, well read European may quite easily have carried that knowledge around with them in the back of his or her mind at any point.

As for the Dogons knowledge of po tolo though? Did the Dogon people actually know of its existence as certain commercially written books riding on the shirt tails of such authors as Von Daniken have claimed?

Certainly, from the point of 1972 onwards the Dogon people have most definitely been aware of the stars existence, but then since about 1972 onwards authors such as Julian Temple and others of the like have gone out of their way to find the Dogon specifically to ask them every last little thing they know about it. Prior to this no other actually serious anthropological study has ever confirmed as evident any particular significance drawn by the Dogon people to either the Stars Sirius and most certainly none whatsoever towards Sirius B as Griaule as early as the 1930's seemed alone to claim.

Predominant western attitudes towards native peoples were, as mentioned earlier, not generally high. Part and parcel of Griaule and Dieterlen's mission statement as committed anthropologists was to bring to light the splendour, complexity and cultural sophistication of so these so-called "primitive" people, a view point hardly shared at all in academic circles at the time.

Certainly, Griaule himself never claimed antiquity to the so-called "knowledge" the Dogon seemed to demonstrate, equally Griaule could quite genuinely have misinterpreted what his interpretation of what the Dogon were meaning themselves regarding the rituals they performed with his own knowledge of what our culture may mean by a similar thing.

Remember, astronomers from as early as the 1920's onwards had been speculating publically upon the binary nature of the particular star the Dogon may appear to have been representing to Guiaule and Dieterlen's surprised eyes - they did, after all seem know more about the solar system than cultural pre-supposition would most readily assume...

Perhaps the truth is down to a case of either genuine misinterpretation or possibly even a conscious choice on the part of the Frenchman to somewhat "exaggerate" certain significances pertinent to his own beliefs regarding "primitive" tribal cultures?

Certainly, the "mystery" regarding the Dogon and Sirius isn't anything like as certain and clear cut as certain individuals have made out. That concrete answers regarding the matter for certain remain somewhat unforthcoming remains perfectly true.

But do we really have to start with visiting aliens first and then work our way backwards? No possible terrestrial explanation could possibly exist to account for this intriguing enigma..?

I beg to differ.

A ;)

Different people, different culture. In Egypt it was all about building, they werent really a warrior society. Today we are a warrior society, we have accomplished many great things such as going into space, inventing atomic weapons, but the main focus we have is is war. We could build a pyramid, if we spent the same money building it as we spend on the star wars missle defense system. The Egyptians built the pyramids and thats why they didn't for example focus on building other things like weapons. The Romans had a better military by far, and it reflects even today if you look at the world. Sure Egyptians/nubians are still around, and Romans are still here, we see what happened.

The Pyramids, seem to have been built to for the Gods, but also to leave something behind, as a legacy. If you are a nation of builders and artists thats usually what you do. I think the pyramids are a type of spiritual artwork.

We could definately build the pyramids today, I don't see how we couldnt. We have the money, the ability, and the people to do it. I don't think we want to do stuff like go into space, or build pyramids because we are too focused on wars and winning.
 
The pyramids would be RIDICULOUSLY easy to build, actually. The structure of the pyramid is essentially a raised mound. It is far more difficult to make the towering spires which we shunt into the sky, which have to take into consideration the forces of the wind, structural stresses, getting water and air up there, et cetera, et cetera.

The marvel is in the building techniques which did not admit of mechanizaiton.
 
Well, indeed. We could build a modern day replica of the Great Pyramid, possibly down to the last stone, if we wished - basically it's a complete lack of incentive on our parts. These things were tombs after all, built for that purpose and that purpose alone to be enduring monuments to the personage squirrelled away inside.

Hell of a waste of expensive to produce building materials, etc. No profit in the undertaking commercially and prohibitively expensive to produce purely for academic purposes.

But basically indeed, though taxing, it's more than merely feasible. After all, the Egyptians managed to put the things up without having so much as the wheel barrow to their names...

But as to that latter point regarding:

I don't think we want to do stuff like go into space, or build pyramids because we are too focused on wars and winning.

Y'know principally I couldn't agree with you more, I mean, without the political incentive of the Cold War they'd never have been a moon shot in the first place let alone a sustained programme following on...

But I'm not entirely certain the Egyptians themselves were actually all that very different from us in this regard. I mean, certainly, religion, spiritual and cultural belief, tradition - these are all trade mark signatures of what went into the Egyptians wanting to make these monumental structures, no question about it...

But it's often struck me, rather as with the Cold War scenario which prompted our culture to elect to put an American Man on the Moon - success in such a venture dictates that the culture responsible has demonstrated, in universally recognised terms, technological, economic and, by implication, military superiority by achieving such monumental, age defining ends - yet doing so without the direct use of military might.

At such times when opposing cultures on all sides are in a position of military stand off, overtly parading the military around, stationing them near boarders etc signals imminent war - therefore destabilising the economy throughout the region.

When it comes to Egypt, as it was both a significant military and economic power within the region, electing to erect such massive, awe inspiring technological feats not only serves both the Egyptians own cultural and religious purposes - it's also a hugely powerful geopolitical message.

It says very clearly, to all who have eyes to see - look what we can do. Look how organised we are. See what we can accomplish when we marshal our will and strength.

But more importantly this undertaking of Pyramid Building requiring continual, ongoing construction on a massive scale permanently underway. This meant that there would always, at a moments notice, be a large body of very fit, very tough, very rugged men of fighting age available that could equally be seconded for military use if required.

A not un-useful asset to have to hand for any nation. Ancient or otherwise.

If these people could lug blocks of stone across a desert in blistering heat with speed and efficiency, the underlying message is, to anyone interested: swords and spears are a damn sight lighter and far, far easier to dispatch.

March your armies around where all can see them, pretty soon everyone across the boarder gets the message that invasion is on its way - but if you're in a geopolitical environment where open warfare is not advantageous, massive undertakings and monument building, politically speaking, are more effective.

It's a facet to the whole ancient Egypt thing which often gets overlooked. They were a remarkably astute people, politically as well as culturally.

So, perhaps when regarding our own cultures motivations concerning undertaking to monumental, enduring achievements - we are merely the descendants of those that came before us. Apples rarely fall terribly far from any tree y'know...

If we forget this, we loose sight of what we actually are. Just another culture. Possibly smelling a bit nicer than previous, but not terribly dissimilar in terms of what it is we actually do.

And why

My regards,

A ;)
 
Actually building a pyramid nowadays is probably worth the effort. For whatever reason, someone would probably want to crash a plane into it. To bad for the plane and the people in it, but at least there are no broken windows in the pyramid. :D
 
Actually they STILL build pyramids.
There's one in France, in front of the Louvre museum.

France%20Paris%20Louvre%20pyramid%20outside.jpg


The French used faith and unknown technology to build it over one nighttime.
Of course strange happenings inside, some human autopsies, UFO tests and parties.
 
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