Unfortunately it could mean that Putin will now change his position from a military exercise to protect Russians in the East to all out war on Ukraine. No need for further to cover up (his real agenda) regards his own population.
Putin's invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter Saint
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US is the country you pretend to hate, but you would gladly trade your entire family and belongings to resemble them in a heartbeat.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
i dont see that as any real change in the battlefield except for more young inexperienced Russians dying in combat
knocking out their key cruise missile boat is a huge win for them considering how many civilians that Russian ship has targeted and killed.
Yeah even though it's limping back to port under it's own power the Moskva could be out of commission for months.
Agree.... but time may tell...( maybe next 24 hours or so )
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
they should hit it again & hope to get the wheel house or the magazine
depends how risky it is to have another launch at it knowing its already out of commission
may be better to target a different ship which is fully operational
There's still a chance the Russians could scuttle it. I think they are ending to dry dock it for repairs.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
! ! ! Hurrar ! ! !
russia statement saying its weapons system are not damaged "suggests" it has nukes on board
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CNN has reported the Russian military as saying the Moskva has sunk under tow.
Waiting for Maxar to verify this, those Russians tend to lie, but why lie about the loss of a capital ship, the pride of the Black Sea fleet?
Who can say? They're admitting a victory--self inflicted or otherwise--for Ukraine.
Waiting for Maxar to verify this, those Russians tend to lie, but why lie about the loss of a capital ship, the pride of the Black Sea fleet?
Who can say? They're admitting a victory--self inflicted or otherwise--for Ukraine.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
as i mentioned above if they have nukes on board they will be expected to retrieve them
which is maybe the only reason they are talking about it
they will probably want to salvage their anti ship missiles
as well as any secret radio equipment & data drives
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A little research into the Neptune missiles system :
Ukraine Developed: 2016-2019-ish
Deployed (Ukraine): Military 2019-2021
wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-360_Neptune
Either they took the Russian Moskva completely by surprise or the sophisticated guidance system did a terrific job.... or both...
The Moskva would have been carrying nukes I would think and the missiles must have been accurately targeting to avoid hitting the nukes..
Ukraine Developed: 2016-2019-ish
Deployed (Ukraine): Military 2019-2021
wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-360_Neptune
Either they took the Russian Moskva completely by surprise or the sophisticated guidance system did a terrific job.... or both...
The Moskva would have been carrying nukes I would think and the missiles must have been accurately targeting to avoid hitting the nukes..
Why would that ship have been carrying nuclear weapons in a war zone?A little research into the Neptune missiles system :
Ukraine Developed: 2016-2019-ish
Deployed (Ukraine): Military 2019-2021
wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-360_Neptune
Either they took the Russian Moskva completely by surprise or the sophisticated guidance system did a terrific job.... or both...
The Moskva would have been carrying nukes I would think and the missiles must have been accurately targeting to avoid hitting the nukes..
Does the US follow similar procedures?
What might have happened if those missiles had struck the nuclear weapons?
Nuclear fallout rather than any actual nuclear explosion?
Why carry them onboard at all?
Don't they have their nuclear submarines and silos to deliver retaliatory strikes if required (in self defense-not as a backup in a war of aggression or in a theatre outside their recognized borders)?
Do all the main militaries routinely carry nuclear weapons into battle rather than reserve them for purely defensive circumstances?
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all really good questions... I have little idea...
Just that nuke deterrent means 24/7 launch capability and well.. the Moskva is a Fleet flagship...so I would think it would have secure unarmed nukes at all times.
Might be wrong but...
I do not believe any russia service vessel is nuclear armed. If ships were my money would be on the Kirov class over the slava class
Is that not a non-sequitur? What does being a flagship have to do with carrying nukes?
It certainly carries Vulkan missiles which can be armed with nukes, but if they weren't already installed, they would probably have to be swapped over at dock rather than on-board, as it's not a quick or simple process (unscrew top, take out conventional, slide in nuclear, screw top back on!
)The US, since 1991/2 (Presidential Nuclear Initiatives), don't have any nukes on surface ships (or so they say!), but the Russians might still do so.
You'd get an explosion (conventional) which may spread radioactive material around a bit, but I'd think it unlikely to cause a nuclear explosion. The same reason shooting a nuclear missile out of the sky probably wouldn't cause a nuclear explosion. To set off the chain-reaction requires a complex process, which any significant impact to the mechanism would likely disrupt, or at least not trigger.
Yup. Radiation hazard as the nuclear material of the bomb gets scattered.
Ships are mobile, and they can get closer to their targets, and launch missiles with lower range, rather than ICBMs from places in Russia etc. I'm not saying that they do carry them any longer, but the reasoning for why they might is still valid.
Sure, and I'm not sure any surface vessel carries nukes any more.
I hope not!
The US did develop the W54 "tactical nuke" back in the day, which was the smallest nuclear device they have put into service. Anything up to 1,ooo tonne yield. By contrast, Hiroshima was about 17,000. I think the intention was to use it for "demolition" of infrastructure (dams, bunkers, industrial complexes etc). So it had a backpack and everything! They may also have equipped missiles with it, but I only know of the backpack version.
foghorn
Valued Senior Member
It's not over.
No matter how it ends, Putin will tell the Russian people his ''target'' has been accomplished.
You just gotta love the ridiculousness of Russia, as they seem to think this war should only be one-way:
"Hey, how dare you sink my battleship... now I'm going to have to level even more of your city!"
"How dare you launch attacks into Russia! This war is only to be fought on Ukrainian soil!!"
While the latter is possibly a false-flag operation (not sure where the evidence lies), the former very much reminds me of:
"Hey, how dare you sink my battleship... now I'm going to have to level even more of your city!"
"How dare you launch attacks into Russia! This war is only to be fought on Ukrainian soil!!"
While the latter is possibly a false-flag operation (not sure where the evidence lies), the former very much reminds me of: