John Mark E
Registered Senior Member
KennyJC said:
I miss how it would be easier to copy other texts than for the three people you have mentioned to all have been an eyewitness to the same events, and to have written them down.
prove to me that god is real
- Thread starter dansufc
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I miss how it would be easier to copy other texts than for the three people you have mentioned to all have been an eyewitness to the same events, and to have written them down.
John Mark E
Registered Senior Member
Godless said:That's a laugh. The bible as well as the Quaran are full of contradictions. Even contradictions accepted by mainstream scholars.
click
I am not sure that I would want to base an argument on a website that begins by stating the things here are "solely my opinions".
1) "God good to all, or just a few"
Psalms 145 is a song and prophetical statement speaking of the nature and perception of God during His "everlasting kingdom" and His "dominion (which) endureth throughout all generations." This has not yet taken place. There is no contradiction here.
2) "War or Peace"
Exodus 15 is also a song, sung by Moses and the children of Israel, commemorating "God's Victory" by the destruction of the Pharaoh's army with the Red Sea. Even a man of peace may have to use war to preserve that peace. Again, there is no contradiction.
3) "Who was at the empty tomb"
I fail to see the contradiction to begin with. Three passages state that Mary Magdalene was there. Two mention others being with her, but none say that she is alone. There is no contradiction.
4) "Is Jesus equal to or lesser than"
"I and My Father are One" This is of one mind, in all things. He does all that His Father appoints to Him, in total obedience, "even unto death". He also assumes this attitude of humility before God the Father as an example for His followers on how we are to present ourselves to Him. There is no contradiction.
5) "Which first-beasts or man"
Genesis 2:19 is a parenthetical moment. The whole chapter is additional descriptions of chapter one. God formed the animals from the ground, and when the time came, brought them to Adam. There is no contradiction.
6) "The number of beasts in the Ark"
Again, where is the contradiction to begin with? There are still two of all animals. Of the clean animals, however, he brought more, as instructed. These were simply the ones used for sacrifices later. There is no contradiction.
Must I continue? Many of these old arguements are being made simply in an attempt to refute the Biblical scriptures, when in actuallity, they are all encountered either by taking the words out of context, or grabbing a seemingly contradictory phrase and running with it, without considering it first and studying the surrounding information to find out why it would seem so. There are no contradictions.
Ever read two or three newspapers' versions of the same event? Ever wondered how amazingly similar they are?John Mark E said:
What?!! They're not?
Wow! Who'd have thunk it!?
To be so similar by mere chance is highly unlikely.
To be so similar through plagarism / copying / common source text is far more likely.
John Mark E
Registered Senior Member
Sarkus said:
Not if it is such a life changing experience...which if you continue to read, you will see that these are. Plus, plagarism would not take into effect that each gospel was written to answer different questions from different people.
Matthew - tax collector - written to the Jews to answer their questions about Jesus and His claims to be the Jewish Messiah. 60-70 AD
Mark - written to Gentile (non-Jews) readers and Romans in particular. His spoke more of Jesus' actions, rather than what He said. 50-60 AD
Luke - physician - written as a historical study, by consulting eyewitnesses to the occurances. has additional written interests in medical matters. 60 AD during Paul's imprisonment.
John - A more theological study and writing about the events, written from a first hand experience. Written to the Jews from a stance of great understanding to the Jewish teachings and customs. 85-90 AD
Similar by chance may be unlikely. Similar due to similar experience, however, is perfectly sensible. Variation of the texts due to occupations and intended audiences makes these four books perfectly plausible.
That's the point, though - there are some areas where there are basically no variation of texts - which one should very much expect from such different people.John Mark E said:
The more life-changing the experience the more there is likely to be colourful variation - again, just look at any two newspapers. Yet still there is undeniable commonality among three of the Gospels.
John Mark E
Registered Senior Member
Sarkus said:
Is it so hard to accept that there is so little variation because that is how it actually happened? That this is not being written as a storybook, but as actual, factual events?
John Mark E said:
*************
M*W: Puh - leeze! Don't get me started on this. Fortunately, for you, I am in a bit of a rush and cannot reply to this post. Your information, or wherever you got it, is wrong! In a word, your post is full of the usual lies christians believe.
John Mark E
Registered Senior Member
Medicine Woman said:
I would love to hear how you seem to know that the information that I have written, from my own studies, is lies. Please. Anytime.
The writings about Jesus in the 4 Gospels parrallel many, many prophesies about the promised Messiah, listed in the Old Testament scriptures. The Old Testament scriptures are verified by themselves, by history, and by archeological evidences...of which I have already posted a small amount that has been found. There are no lies being presented here, other than those which you are reading into it.
John Mark E
Registered Senior Member
(Q) said:
Considering that each of these men were to have been out preaching, I'm surprised that the got to it that soon. Also consider that not only were they evangelising, with sometimes as many as 3,000 converts in a single day, that there were many, many people with questions. There time would logically be rather occupied.
John Mark E
Registered Senior Member
(Q) said:
scroll down the page some...I did that yesterday...
Better yet, I'll post it again...
1: archeological discoveries mentioning visiting Joseph in Egypt during a famine, since they were the only source of food...Professor Niebuhr's "Voyage en Arabie"
2: King Nebuchadnezzar's inscription found by Professor Oppert at a site known as Barzippa, 'tongue-tower', otherwise known as the Tower of Babel
3: Moses and Joseph both mentioned in the historical writings of the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, in his book Josephus Against Apion
4: Merenptah-the Egyptian Pharoah was originally discovered in 1898 by French archeologist Victor Loret. The medical examination was only completed in 1975. Due to the examination showing his death by rapid drowning and removal from the water, along with other study gave grounds for the most notable Egyptologist, Sir Flinders Petrie, to conclude that Pharaoh Merenptah was the pharaoh of the book of Exodus.
5: Numerous "seals" have been unearthed in different digs which were directly associated with different historical figures mentioned in the Bible. Among these: Baruch, son of Neriah, friend and scribe for the prophet Jeremiah; Shema, servant of Jeroboam; Abdi, the high official of King Hosea, the last king of the northern kingdom of Israel, before it was conquered by the Assyrian Empire in 721BC.
These are only a few of the evidences that give credit to the writings and figures of the Biblical scriptures. I can give more if it is truly desired.
John Mark E
Registered Senior Member
(Q) said:
If the writing is factual, which I believe it is, there would not have been any questions presented which the answer would have been unknown. Their evangelism began with a stirring in their souls by the Holy Spirit, empowering them to go out in boldness, and preaching to all people. If this is true, like I said, I believe it is, then all questions would have had an answer provided.
Some people, regretably did change some of the teachings. Those that did were called to the carpet on the subject and publicly corrected. Due to the number of followers, there were plenty of checks and balances available. Some of the churches did question what they were being told by some of the "preachers". When they did, they addressed their questions to those who sat/walked and talked with Jesus firsthand. In this way, questions about embellishment were corrected, and returned to the truth once again.
John Mark E said:
Hence, the problem from the get-go, your belief that the writing is factual. You begin on the pretence, which is fallacious.
It doesn't sound believable in the least, yet that is the position you take, hence you can justify anything you want, no matter how far-fetched it is.
Then, we are unable to accept those teachings at face value, as they ALL may have been changed or even created by their authors. Do you accept that possibility?
Of course, that would depend on whether or not each and every word Jesus may have uttered were remembered as they were spoken, and not the creation of what the author thinks they heard or wanted to hear.
SnakeLord said:
i don't know if they're really forcing anyone. you can't force an atheist to believe in christianity... unless you point a gun on his head or something. i've never encountered anyone who has tried to force his beliefs to me, they've just talked about their belief (although they might have wanted me to believe what they believe). they may also threaten people with hell, but it doesn't bother me because i don't believe in hell. but most people would not even talk to us about their beliefs unless we came to them and listened to them... like we come here... to this forum. so maybe it's my fault if someone tries to force his beliefs to me.