prove to me that god is real

wsionynw said:
It's not clear what you mean by this. We know that people dream, you're a person, so if you say you had a dream last night then why wouldn't anyone believe you? :confused:
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Do you mean you will take for granted anything I said?

You know you have dream. You know your family, friends, and others have dream.
Can you also then conclude than I have experienced such dream last night? It's not "why wouldn't anyone believe me", but my question is "how do anyone prove my experience"?
 
LiveInFaith said:
Do you mean you will take for granted anything I said?

You know you have dream. You know your family, friends, and others have dream.
Can you also then conclude than I have experienced such dream last night? It's not "why wouldn't anyone believe me", but my question is "how do anyone prove my experience"?
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No one does, nor needs to. Just as your personal experience of your god is yours alone. The problem arises when you and your bretheren decide that your "dream" is reality and you begin to try to convert people to your "dream" way of thinking and to influence the way society works. Then we atheists want to bring forth the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch and lobbest it in thine direction.
 
Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

-- Monty Python, "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"
 
LiveInFaith said:
Do you mean you will take for granted anything I said?

You know you have dream. You know your family, friends, and others have dream.
Can you also then conclude than I have experienced such dream last night? It's not "why wouldn't anyone believe me", but my question is "how do anyone prove my experience"?
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What a silly question! It's like asking someone to prove that I farted yesterday! People dream all the time, we know this, we also know that people think and make things up with their own imagination. What's to prove?
What is your point exactly?? :eek:
 
So you cannot prove one's experience of dream. I mean, in the sense of all 5 senses.

You farted, surrounding you will be going away closing their nose. It is proven, detected by nose.
 
my point is, what instance of evidence is to be presented, when you need (you may not need it in real life) to prove one's experience of dream; assuming the one to be proven let you examine all his parts of body.
 
LiveInFaith said:
my point is, what instance of evidence is to be presented, when you need (you may not need it in real life) to prove one's experience of dream; assuming the one to be proven let you examine all his parts of body.
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I think I understand now, are you saying that we cannot prove that someone was NOT spoken to by God? In the same way we cannot prove that you DIDN'T have a particular dream?
Obviously the proof is required on the part of the dreamer or prophet. CAN YOU PROVE YOU HAD A DREAM OR A VISIT FROM GOD?
 
No I cannot. And as I believe, no one can.

My point, as everybody is proven to have dream of their own (dream is an axioms that nobody can deny that experiencing dream is real, but on the other way round, no one can prove their experience of dream to anybody else); There are things in our world cannot be proven as scientifically required, but it is real.
 
So how could anyone answer the question on this thread title, while nobody can prove that one's experience of dream is real? Things that are accepted to be real still could not be proven.
 
LiveInFaith said:
So how could anyone answer the question on this thread title, while nobody can prove that one's experience of dream is real? Things that are accepted to be real still could not be proven.
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Yes true, but a dream is something that is just as personal as a thought. I am thinking of a pink elephant, but you cannot prove that I'm NOT thinking of a pink elephant and I cannot prove that I AM thinking of a pink elephant. We can prove that humans have brain activity and that certain parts of the brain control certain parts of the body, used for memory, sights, sounds, etc.
As it stands there is no proof of a God or Gods, which is quite important if you claim that God created everything and has 'his' own wishes on how humans live their lives (which is just so ridiculous I can barely write it). :p
 
And my conclusion: Inability to prove, doesn't always conclude that the object required to be proven become not real.
 
LiveInFaith said:
If I have faith in you, I will buy that you said you think of pink elephant.
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Where are we on this? It seems like the old, you can't prove it does exist and I can't prove it doesn't exist. Pointless. My question to you is, if you believe in God then WHY do you believe in God? :confused:
 
You know the answer: a convenient way of surrendering by the lack of ability to think.
It is, so far, already proven, that there is no way to prove the existence or in-existence of God. Up to this point, the only way to prove IT, is by faith. Sound rational? Not if you deny that human has faith.
 
LiveInFaith said:
You know the answer: a convenient way of surrendering by the lack of ability to think.
It is, so far, already proven, that there is no way to prove the existence or in-existence of God. Up to this point, the only way to prove IT, is by faith. Sound rational? Not if you deny that human has faith.
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*************
M*W: If there were a god, it would be obvious to all and not require the need to be proven.
 
the only way to prove IT, is by faith
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you cannot prove anything with faith.

people accept that a dream existed because it makes no difference either way. moreover, I don't always believe the things my friend tells me he dreamt about because I know that he lies about little, pointless things like that.

if someone were to tell me that I should live according to some rules he/she dreamt about, I would tell them to shove it in their...pipe.

yes, there are things that exist, but cannot be proved (people's feelings are one). we take these things on faith according to how reasonable the repercussions are. I would be an idiot to jump into the grand canyon because a friend dreamt that an eagle would save me if I did. likewise, I would be an idiot to change my life according to some unprovable religion.
 
Theists have faith on things they never be able to prove.
Of course it is idiot to expect an eagle to save you.

If you think it is idiot to live some unprovable religion, that is a generalization. All religion are unprovable, and so those examples (dream experience, people minds, feelings), are unprovable. Would I be an idiot because trusting the existence of those unprrovable things?
 
cato said:
you cannot prove anything with faith.
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So far, neither theist nor atheist can arrive into final conclusion of the existence and nonexistence of God.

If theist are defined to have faith in the existence of God, what do you define the 'believe' of atheist in the nonexistence of God?
 
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