prove the Illuminati exist.

Latest Illuminati News in the European press. . .

Apparently someone is taking UN General Secretary Ban Ki-Moon, Former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, Giancarlo Bruno, who is identified as head of the banking industry for the World Economic Forum, Italy's ambassador to the UN Cesare Maria Ragaflini, Ray C. Dam, president of the Office of International Treasury Control, and David A. Sale, the deputy chief of the council for the cabinet of the OITC to court. Unfortunately, the courts themselves are all run by these guys. So what do you do when the game is rigged? lol

I don't know. If you were gambling at a casino, and you found out the casino had been cheating you for sixty years, and owed you money for sixty years, what would you do? Looks like WWIII is in the offing if the rest of the World doesn't get their gold. Which is fine I think, because that is what the "Illuminati" have been trying to start anyway. But it is really hard to get your people to fight a war if they knew the truth, right? It's a lot easier to convince them it is about Iran, and not stolen Chinese gold from 60 years ago. lol

Bizarre Claim for $1 Trillion


And that, as they say, is just the tip of the Iceberg.
 
Jeremyhfht said:
It has come to my attention that in recent weeks following my arrival to this forum, there has been an increase of people claiming that the Illuminati are behind the numerous conspiracy theories they continue to cite.

Not only have these people failed to adequately prove their stance, they have also succeeded in annoying most of the members. when asked prove their stance, they normally provide evidence which is easily refuted. Also, once its refuted, they simply go on mindless tangents about how we are part of the "Illuminati", or they claim that our logic is flawed without proving their assertion.

Therefore I create this thread, and request those responsible to actually prove this Illuminati exists. If they are incapable of doing so, then I request they be removed from this forum, or remain under the condition that they stop posting such nonsense. as we have all heard quite enough.

If all parties agree, then will the admin/moderators kindly enforce the rules I provide below:

---RULES---

The rules are simple:

1. No soap-boxing

2. no logical fallacies. Logically fallicious posts will be removed.

3. No baseless posts. If you make a claim in your post, include evidence with it. Evidence will be sources, such as highly credible websites that include researched claims. If the website hasn't fully researched it's own claims, you will be requested to provide links that explains.

4. If what you said has been proven incorrect by an overwhelming mass of evidence, then you must acknowledge this, or provide further evidence for your own stance.

5. No double-edged statements. "This picture was edited" when it appears to be obvious data loss is an example. Unless you prove your stance with something other than circular logic, or a logical fallacy, don't mention it.

6. Proper grammar. This includes spaces, punctuation, and no profanity.

7. Respond in debate format. Quote sections you are rebuking, so that it's clear what specific sentence/paragraph you're referring to.

8. Absolutely no double-posting, that is what the edit button is for

9. Nothing goes off topic.

10. Just to be entirely certain the most common logical fallacy wont be used: Absolutely no ad-hominems.

11. If you fail to understand these rules, and refuse to look them up, then your posts will be deleted as they breach them. This is to ensure the debate goes along in an official fashion, with no stupidity involved.

12. Posting images is not allowed, only links to the images.

13. If any other threads concerning the Illuminati are made outside of this one, I request that a moderator lock and remove them. This will be closed to this thread until the situation is resolved, and it's proven either way. That way, we get the whole story, and the forum doesn't have to deal with such cluttered messes.
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http://www.guilderberg.com/
Looks like someone is tired of his brothers getting a bad and rep. :eek: Boo. . . sour grapes that you're being exposed? :p
 
The luminaries run the world and pick the presidents; oooo scary stuff! What is really scary is the last 3 presidents Clinton - Bush - Obama that they picked. This indicates that the luminaries must be schizophrenic, there is no consistency ideology.:shrug:

I noticed a bunch of luminaries in our neighbors yard, but luckily it just because they were having a party - I though it was the big One World Goverment take over for a minute and started searching for the black helocopters!:eek:
 
origin said:
The luminaries run the world and pick the presidents; oooo scary stuff! What is really scary is the last 3 presidents Clinton - Bush - Obama that they picked. This indicates that the luminaries must be schizophrenic, there is no consistency ideology.:shrug:
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Well, like it or not, it's true.

“The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.”
― Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

Carroll Quigley (November 9, 1910 – January 3, 1977) was an American historian and theorist of the evolution of civilizations. He is noted for his teaching work as a professor at Georgetown University, for his academic publications, and for his research on secret societies.[1][2]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley
This is the only man to ever have access to the Council on Foriegn Affairs secret historical archives, whom the men you have previously mentioned, have all been members, associate members, have lectured in front of, or written for.

In fact, both Clinton and Obama have stated that their favorite book is his magnum opus, Tragedy and Hope; A History of the World in Our Time

How about a quote from this book, shall we?

"...[T]he powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. this system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations....

"It must not be felt that these heads of the world's chief central banks were themselves substantive powers in world finance. They were not. Rather, they were the technicians and agents of the dominant investment bankers of their own countries, who had raised them up and were perfectly capable of throwing them down. The substantive financial powers of the world were in the hands of these investment bankers (also called 'international' or 'merchant' bankers) who remained largely behind the scenes in their own unincorporated private banks. These formed a system of international cooperation and national dominance which was more private, more powerful, and more secret than that of their agents in the central banks. this dominance of investment bankers was based on their control over the flows of credit and investment funds in their own countries and throughout the world. They could dominate the financial and industrial systems of their own countries by their influence over the flow of current funds though bank loans, the discount rate, and the re-discounting of commercial debts; they could dominate governments by their own control over current government loans and the play of the international exchanges. Almost all of this power was exercised by the personal influence and prestige of men who had demonstrated their ability in the past to bring off successful financial coupes, to keep their word, to remain cool in a crisis, and to share their winning opportunities with their associates."

Here's a synopsis of the book. . .
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119975.pdf

And I'm given to understand, this is the book. . . Public libraries do not carry this, and you hardly find it in any book store, it must be special ordered.
Tragedy and Hope
A History of the World in Our Time



I dig this resource. Unlike others, when people speak of an "Illuminati," they think it means a regimented order with one objective, and it has singular agreed upon goals.

My take is that it has a more loose interpretation. It can mean many things to many people. Basically, it is a loose confederation of very powerful men who all agree that society is best ruled by secretive elite groups passing on their power, mainly via heredity lines, and by internal agreements by who should be let in through a basis of marriages and family ties. It is about money and power, not the welfare of the earth and all of humanity.
 
origin said:
I must disagree. I think it is nothing more than your unfounded paranoid belief.
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I can't make you click on my links, nor can I make you read or do the research. Belief denotes something on which ideas are based on fancy, not facts. I post referenced facts by reputable sources.

Paranoia "is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion."

To the latter, I may be guilty, so I am always on guard, and I come here often for a reality check. There are many skeptics that I am very grateful to that have helped keep me on that straight and narrow. Please, feel free to check my sources and tell me what you think.

As time passes though, the world is unraveling, because there are very real covert interest groups. You do know what an interest group is don't you? Well, there ARE interest groups that do seek to remain anonymous because it helps to further their goals more efficiently. This has always been the case through out the history of civilization. If you are in denial of this, you are simply being obtuse.

Do you really think the Boston Tea party was the act of Native Americans? Or were you aware that almost all politicians in the cause for liberty in the newly formed United States were Free Masons? They initiated a secretive populist movement. . . among tradesmen, called, The Sons of Liberty. Have you ever heard of this movement? It's not so much of a secret now. Back then, if you were a loyalist, a fellow loyalist would have called you, "paranoid," had you dared utter such nonsense.

It would be instructive of you to understand how power, realpolitik operates.

In large measure, the elites move masses of people the same as they have always done, and it is the same families, for very much the same reasons.

When I was in grade school, I read a book titled, Johnny Tremain, by Esther Forbes. It's a wonderful propaganda piece, by one of our very own ruling elite families. I highly recommend it. When I was a child, I didn't understand the significance of it till I reread it as an adult. I don't know why it is considered a classic. It's very poorly written. It has many sentence fragments, and poor grammar. Nothing like it could be published today. Yet. . . well, maybe you are right, maybe I am just paranoid. Yet in the seventies, it was taught in schools. Go read it, get an education.
 
Video

So based on this idea of hand signs being proof of membership, we have confirmed the membership of Barack Obama, George Bush, and, oh yeah, Lady Gaga.

Clearly that's sound reasoning.
 
Socratic Spelunker said:
Video

So based on this idea of hand signs being proof of membership, we have confirmed the membership of Barack Obama, George Bush, and, oh yeah, Lady Gaga.

Clearly that's sound reasoning.
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Hey, wasn't it Kyoto where none of the dignitaries would shake Bush's hand?

Maybe the absence of a handshake is the secret sign.

Obama once wrote that Bush wouldn't shake his hand, but offered hand sanitizer.

With all the money they've got, you would think they'd be using something a little more sophisticated than a hand shake.
 
George Washington letters/illuminati in the U.S. and he was glad for it

I have many links and videos including tape recordings and manuscripts from David Rockefellers memoirs as well as letters from George Washington in 1798 saying he was happy that the illuminati was in the u.s.

They said I have to have 20 posts until I can post links. I've never heard of such a dumb thing.
 
@The Esotericist --

I clicked your links, I've done massive amounts of research, but yet I came to a completely different conclusion than you did. What does that tell you?
 
420Joey said:
That you suck at doing research
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Hmm, it indicates to me that The Esotericist has the typical beliefs of a Conspiracy Nut and reads his own paranoid fears into whatever he researches.
 
There are many secret and powerful people in the world, but I highly doubt they all go by the name of "illuminati."

Let's look at drug lords and governments that practice prohibition of drugs. The governments that are anti-drug conduct raids that increase the price of the drugs by cutting down on the supply. The really smart/cautious drug lords that don't get caught love to see their competition taken out by drug raids...

If illegal drugs were made legal the price would drop and drug addicts would stop robbing and plundering their neighbors just to get money to pay for their drugs, instead they would be able to cultivate their own supply without causing problems for other people. If drugs were legal, addiction would only hurt those doing the drugs...
 
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