Proof that God exists!

I just find it a bit funny how theist cling even when a logical, rational mind would find any religion absolutely absurd. I've seen that video before, and it's dead-on. You really have to just throw logic completely out the window to have faith.

That is inherent in the definition of "faith". It literally means to believe in something completely for which there is no overwhelming evidence.

What baffles me is that people wear this badge of madness with honor! They think that the admission of being insane makes them better people. I don't understand. :shrug:
 
I don't have a problem with folks believing. I don't. I just have a problem when that faith--which as you said, has no business being considered a virtue--becomes enforceable. It's ridiculous that these no-minded fools have the run of the place. Our own damn President tried to change the constitution to make gay marriage illegal. I mean, that's just taking it to the highest possible level of Ballsy. Oh, and the whole not allowing stem cell research on a federal level...wow.
 
I just find it a bit funny how theist cling even when a logical, rational mind would find any religion absolutely absurd. I've seen that video before, and it's dead-on. You really have to just throw logic completely out the window to have faith.

Love isn't logical, should we throw that out the window too? If you believe in love, PROVE that it exists. Did your mother love you? PROVE it! Did you father love you? PROVE it! Did/do you love them, again - prove it! The same goes for your spouse, your children, and all those you claim to love.

While not essential to faith, the experience of God in your life will get your attention in a hurry. That which is experiential can be claimed by a person, told to others, and even shared by others, but it cannot be proven to those who have no such experience themselves. Ninety per cent of the population of the planet believes in a Supreme Being. The only reason to attempt to prove it to anyone else is to enable them to share in a world they will never otherwise know, and to come to know a Father and a Son whose love dwarfs... everything.

Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.
 
Love isn't logical, should we throw that out the window too? If you believe in love, PROVE that it exists. Did your mother love you? PROVE it! Did you father love you? PROVE it! Did/do you love them, again - prove it! The same goes for your spouse, your children, and all those you claim to love.

Sigh. Actually, I can prove it exists. It's a chemical reaction in the brain that can be witnessed using various devices. And yes, love is logical, and its evolutionary benefits are obvious.

While not essential to faith, the experience of God in your life will get your attention in a hurry. That which is experiential can be claimed by a person, told to others, and even shared by others, but it cannot be proven to those who have no such experience themselves. Ninety per cent of the population of the planet believes in a Supreme Being. The only reason to attempt to prove it to anyone else is to enable them to share in a world they will never otherwise know, and to come to know a Father and a Son whose love dwarfs... everything.

Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.

Yeah, OK, but let's stop pretending that actual material things like love aren't material. Yes, your reaction to your religious experiences are real, but it doesn't mean your god is real. Stop comparing it to actual things.
 
What baffles me is that people wear this badge of madness with honor! They think that the admission of being insane makes them better people. I don't understand.

Part of what makes it madness is thinking madness is a virtue.
 
What baffles me is that people wear this badge of madness with honor! They think that the admission of being insane makes them better people. I don't understand. :shrug:

Isn't recognition of your illness the first step towards recovery ? :p
 
I am convinced also! Great job there. It says it all . . . .

It also holds true for Santa Claus, unicorns and munchkins. Since we cannot prove the do not exist, we have to accept that they do! I wonder if all the millions of Shinto kami spirits exist also! I am beginning to wonder if we won't be crowded out of the world at this rate . . .:shrug:

charles
http://atheistic-science.com

funny thing is.... SOMEDAY atheists won't exist....
 
funny thing is.... SOMEDAY atheists won't exist....



please elaborate... I like funny things
 
swivel,

That is inherent in the definition of "faith". It literally means to believe in something completely for which there is no overwhelming evidence.

We all make decisions, all the time, on whether to accept or believe something for which there is no overwhelming evidence of its outcome.
The only difference here is that you have decided to believe that God doesn't exist, for whatever reason, and believe that life somehow spontaneosly came about, for which you have not one shred of overwhelming evidence.

What baffles me is that people wear this badge of madness with honor! They think that the admission of being insane makes them better people. I don't understand. :shrug:

The source of your bafflement lies is your preconception of faith and essential religion.

jan.
 
swivel,
We all make decisions, all the time, on whether to accept or believe something for which there is no overwhelming evidence of its outcome.
The only difference here is that you have decided to believe that God doesn't exist, for whatever reason, and believe that life somehow spontaneosly came about, for which you have not one shred of overwhelming evidence.
Wrong. Almost ALL of our decisions are based on sensory data. People take almost nothing on faith. You don't stick your car keys in your ear to crank the engine. Every word you utter, every action you perform, is a type of mimicry and logical deduction. Superstition is the only exception to these rules, and even this confusion of correlation and causation has known evolutionary benefits. If Thug got sick after he ate the red berries and drank from the fishing spot, it is going to be "smart" to assume that there is something wrong with red berries and the water from the fishing spot. Even though only one of these is logically unsafe, evolution isn't set up to discover TRUTH, only survival and sex. So it has resulted in brain modules that use very loose ties between what happens and what caused it to happen. It is nature's motto: "Better safe than sorry".

There is a TON of evidence that life is nothing but complex chemical reactions. DNA is a long polymer. Just a string of 4 different, simple chemical bases. These bases align to form proteins. Proteins effect change by altering the shape of compounds it bonds with. Biology = Chemistry.

And we have a great understanding of how these first chemical reactions got started. The building blocks arise naturally, and even exist in outer space! There are mountains of evidence for how life arose from chemical beginnings, so much so that the various theories argue with one another, competing for theoretical supremacy.

The source of your bafflement lies is your preconception of faith and essential religion. jan.

Your hubris is disturbing; you do not know the first thing about me. I was raised Episcopalian, baptized and confirmed. I didn't just go to church, I was active in it. Every year I still go home to a one-week revival we call "Camp Meeting" where we live in a large square of cabins around a common area that has a church and open arbor in it. My great-great-great grandfather was one of the founders and I helped rebuild that arbor after Hurricane Hugo. I work with the kids there, I am one of the few founding descendants that serves as an usher during services, and I have built dozens of homes through my church and Habitat for Humanity. I KNOW what faith feels like, and if it did not lead to real harm I wouldn't rail against it.

I also think horoscopes are bunk and that walking under ladders does not change your luck. Why do I not rail against these superstitions? These examples of faith? Because these groups do not tell women that they are inferior. They do not ruin families by taking abortion off the table. They do not set up systems which promote non-sexual men to assume positions of authority before they realize that their lack of appetite for female companions was not a "sign from God that they were meant to be a priest", it was an indication of their pedophilia. Astrology does not stop stem-cell research, or make families keep their kids away from decent medical care, opting to "pray" instead. Nobody was burned at the stake or stoned over an Ouiji Board.

Faith is filth. It perverts decent people into doing evil shit. And when heaped on our youth, it is a form of brain-rape that prevents their greatest attribute from ever flowering. It is pure evil and it needs to be mocked until it is no more.
 
swivel,

Wrong. Almost ALL of our decisions are based on sensory data.

Sensory data cannot determine outcome.
All the sensory data in the world will not prevent you or I from being shot tommorow, if that is going to happen.

People take almost nothing on faith.

Unless you know the outcome beforehand, most decisions are made in faith.

You don't stick your car keys in your ear to crank the engine. Every word you utter, every action you perform, is a type of mimicry and logical deduction.

That's not what faith is about.
Faith pertains to the things you cannot possibly know.

If Thug got sick after he ate the red berries and drank from the fishing spot, it is going to be "smart" to assume that there is something wrong with red berries and the water from the fishing spot. Even though only one of these is logically unsafe, evolution isn't set up to discover TRUTH, only survival and sex. So it has resulted in brain modules that use very loose ties between what happens and what caused it to happen. It is nature's motto: "Better safe than sorry".

What does this have to do with faith?
"Better late than sorry" is mans motto. :)

There is a TON of evidence that life is nothing but complex chemical reactions. DNA is a long polymer. Just a string of 4 different, simple chemical bases. These bases align to form proteins. Proteins effect change by altering the shape of compounds it bonds with. Biology = Chemistry.

The old "tons of evidence" routine again.
I'm going to be blunt with you, I think you have wishful thinking under the banner of faith. You don't know anything.

Your hubris is disturbing; you do not know the first thing about me.

Unless everything you write is intended bullshit, and has nothing to do with what or how you really think, I believe I know something about you.

I was raised Episcopalian, baptized and confirmed. I didn't just go to church, I was active in it. Every year I still go home to a one-week revival we call "Camp Meeting" where we live in a large square of cabins around a common area that has a church and open arbor in it. My great-great-great grandfather was one of the founders and I helped rebuild that arbor after Hurricane Hugo. I work with the kids there, I am one of the few founding descendants that serves as an usher during services, and I have built dozens of homes through my church and Habitat for Humanity. I KNOW what faith feels like, and if it did not lead to real harm I wouldn't rail against it.

I also think horoscopes are bunk and that walking under ladders does not change your luck. Why do I not rail against these superstitions? These examples of faith?

These are not examples of faith, faith is a separate entity.
One can have faith in these things, if one uses them to direct their life.
Not walking under ladders for fear of bad luck, is just that, fear.
As far as horoscopes go, people who use them properly, do not rely on them. They use them as a loose guide. Of course people who rely on them, have faith that what they say is right, but that is not everybody who believes them to be valid.

Because these groups do not tell women that they are inferior. They do not ruin families by taking abortion off the table. They do not set up systems which promote non-sexual men to assume positions of authority before they realize that their lack of appetite for female companions was not a "sign from God that they were meant to be a priest", it was an indication of their pedophilia. Astrology does not stop stem-cell research, or make families keep their kids away from decent medical care, opting to "pray" instead. Nobody was burned at the stake or stoned over an Ouiji Board.

And you're saying faith in God allows these things to occurr?
Where is your evidence?

Faith is filth.

Interesting rationale.

It perverts decent people into doing evil shit. And when heaped on our youth, it is a form of brain-rape that prevents their greatest attribute from ever flowering. It is pure evil and it needs to be mocked until it is no more.

I'm not even going to respond to this.

jan.
 
You think "Faith" is thinking that a dropped object will plummet to the Earth when it is released? Even though the outcome has been seem millions of times?

If you think this is "Faith", then you rob the concept of all its spiritual power. You water it down to meaningless drivel. And then we have to come up with a new word for "believing something for which there is NO evidence" so that we can distinguish this from "believing in things with OVERWHELMING evidence". Believing in the former and not believing in the latter are both signs of insanity. And yet you want to lump these two groups into the same word?

You are using more insanity to justify your previous insanity.
 
Anyone who has faith in anything is admirable. I've lost any sort of faith in anything.

I prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

But, anyone who has faith ought to respect reason. Ignorance is a prideful state of mind, and we know what the Bible says about pride.
 
swivel,

You think "Faith" is thinking that a dropped object will plummet to the Earth when it is released? Even though the outcome has been seem millions of times?

That's not my definition at all. As we know what will happen there is no need of faith.

If you think this is "Faith", then you rob the concept of all its spiritual power. You water it down to meaningless drivel.

I think you have misunderstood my understanding of faith.

And then we have to come up with a new word for "believing something for which there is NO evidence" so that we can distinguish this from "believing in things with OVERWHELMING evidence". Believing in the former and not believing in the latter are both signs of insanity. And yet you want to lump these two groups into the same word?
swivel said:
People take almost nothing on faith.

jan said:
Unless you know the outcome beforehand, most decisions are made in faith.

and,

jan said:
Faith pertains to the things you cannot possibly know.

I suggest you actually read what someone writes before commenting.
And I think you should review your current understanding of "Faith",

jan.
 
jayleew,

Anyone who has faith in anything is admirable.

How do you define "faith"?

I've lost any sort of faith in anything.

I prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Congratulations!
You have found faith again.

But, anyone who has faith ought to respect reason.

I think people who don't respect reason are so because that is who they are, not because they have faith.
And some poeple play at being reasonable, but once their so-called reason goes through the scrutiny process, it becomes apparent that they are most unreasonable.

jan.


Ignorance is a prideful state of mind, and we know what the Bible says about pride.[/QUOTE]
 
I suggest you actually read what someone writes before commenting.
And I think you should review your current understanding of "Faith",

jan.

I suggest you pop your head out of your ass and allow each of us to use the public forums as we see fit. M'kay? :eek:

Definitions on the web:

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence

1. strong belief in something, esp. without proof
2. a specific system of religious beliefs

1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof

Wikipedia: Faith is a belief, characteristically without proof.

You seem to think that "proof" requires perfect foresight. That is silly. We can prove that the angles of a triangle in Euclidean space add up to 180 degrees, we don't have to measure every single triangle to have "proof". You are confusing mindless repetition for complete knowledge, which is ridiculous. It is safe to say that the angles of all triangles in flat, Euclidean space sum to 180 degrees. Period. Proven.

Faith, then is the act of believing in things FOR NO REASON. "Reason" being the key word. It is an open act of insanity. Thinking that something is "so" without any cause to think it is "so". An epistemology of randomness.

Confusing a dropped object as an act of faith destroys the meaning of reason and faith and shows a gross ignorance of all the concepts discussed in this thread.
 
*************
M*W: Give us some statistics. Atheism is growing and christianity is dying. It's just wishful thinking on your part, but you will lose.

Amen to that.

But researchers at the City University of New York made a subtle change in 2001 when updating their portrait of U.S. religious identities. They asked: "What religion do you identify with, if any?" A stunning 14 percent said "no religion" -- nearly 30 million Americans. Another question asked if respondents were religious or secular, and 16 percent chose "secular."

"Those two words -- 'if any' -- made a big difference," said Fred Edwords, editorial director of the American Humanist Association. "Those two little words signaled that it was acceptable for people to say that they didn't believe in God or at least didn't practice any particular religion."

Other recent surveys have brought secularists similar glad tidings. According to the National Election Studies, the percentage of Americans who say they attend weekly religious services fell from 38 to 25 percent between 1972 and 2000. Meanwhile, those who never attend services rose from 11 to 33 percent.

Source: http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=2316
 
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