Proof of the existence of God

No. It was definitely a reality, not an hallucination.
No doubt the experience was real, but excuse me/us if I/we don't take your word for the certainty of your interpretation.
The universe is conscious of itself.
It is? Says who? Where's your evidence?
Maybe not all the time, only when God merges with it. As well as with you.
According to most, if not all, scriptures of God he does not merge and demerge from the universe but is constantly an inherent part of it - thus is always part of everything within it.
So from which notion of God are you assuming He merges and demerges with the universe as you suggest?
The experience is explained by Quantum Entanglement. Not the dilation of one's pupils.
Please do tell how this experience is explained by Quantum Entanglement?
 
No doubt the experience was real, but excuse me/us if I/we don't take your word for the certainty of your interpretation.
It is? Says who? Where's your evidence?
According to most, if not all, scriptures of God he does not merge and demerge from the universe but is constantly an inherent part of it - thus is always part of everything within it.

God only *appears* distinct from the universe at most times. That is why I proposed the "sometimes argument". BUT YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! If God was sometimes distinct from the universe, aka non-existent (think Tao's existent/ non-existent simultaneous god-experience), then He could not know when to "step-in" at "special requests for evidence of His existence in one's personal life".

So from which notion of God are you assuming He merges and demerges with the universe as you suggest?
Please do tell how this experience is explained by Quantum Entanglement?

Entanglement is explained as the instantaneous communication between two or more remote things, such as reality and mind when they merge or become one, hence influencing each other as opposed to being distinct affecting each other in a one way street (aka the appearance of reality influencing mind alone).
 
Entanglement is explained as the instantaneous communication between two or more remote things, such as reality and mind when they merge or become one, hence influencing each other as opposed to being distinct affecting each other in a one way street (aka the appearance of reality influencing mind alone).
So, rather than telling me what you think QE is, please explain how this experience is explained by it.
 
Spellbound, you almost certainly didn't have an experience of QE, it's more of an interpretation after the fact, don't you think? The phenomenon of enlightenment, in which all things appear an undifferentiated oneness, is close to reality, and different from god, in that it's the brain that tries to make sense of sensory experience by classifying the one into the many. If we bypass that filter, then all is one. If people are conditioned to think this sort of out of the ordinary experience is god, then it will reinforce their bias. If they have no bias, the attribute of god or personality might be absent.
 
sideshowbob,

I do not "believe" that God does not exist. That would be as empty a belief as the belief that God exists.

How do you know belief in God is an empty belief?

I said that the "God" that people believe in is made up.

You can say whatever you like, but you have no idea.

That doesn't preclude the existence of a real God.

Wow ur more fun than Sarkus.

Can explain what this "real God" could be like.

However, there is no solid reason to conclude that there is a real God.

Brilliant!
You are so much more fun, and interesting than Sarkus.

Jan.
 
Last edited:
You're claiming that God exists because the definition of God is that God exists.

The definition I gave definition of God is THE definition. You, me, and everyone in this thread knows this as fact. Get over it.

All other concepts of God are simply different aspects of this Supreme being.




Jan.
 
Last edited:
That doesn't mean God is real. You can't just define an entity into existence, no matter how much you stomp your feet and refuse to accept reality.
 
That doesn't mean God is real. You can't just define an entity into existence, no matter how much you stomp your feet and refuse to accept reality.

I didn't say God is real.
Is Superman, or Robin Hood, real, because we define their characters and attributes?

Jan.
 
Yep - but he won't accept that his reasoning is circular, and in fact accuses those who note that it is of being wilfully ignorant and preventing discussion.
Jan's been denying having claimed it ever since he wrote that.
Either he is simply incapable of seeing the implicit claim within what he wrote, or he is being dishonest.
That, coupled with his inability to identify the circularity within his own arguments, says pretty much all you need to know about the last 4 or 5 pages of this thread.
Quoted for repetition.
 
It's a simple question. And this thread IS about God, so it's definitely relevant, so... do you believe in God?
 
It's a simple question. And this thread IS about God, so it's definitely relevant, so... do you believe in God?

It is simple question, but I'm at a loss as to why ur asking me something you already know the answer to. Plus I don't see how changing the subject in this way, is needed to answer my questions.

Jan.
 
... Entanglement is explained as the instantaneous communication between two or more remote things, such as reality and mind when they merge or become one, hence influencing each other as opposed to being distinct affecting each other in a one way street (aka the appearance of reality influencing mind alone).
Half correct. Yes the entangled state is one thing, like a coin is one thing, despite it having head and tail (or polarization up and polarization down for two entangled photons); but there no faster than light "communication."

For example, imagine a mile thick coin spinning in space between Earth and Mars. When it is observed to have the head side pointed directly at the sun, the tail side is pointing directly away from the sun with no need of communication between them. An observation can "untangle" a pair of entangled photons which had and always will have no net polarization. Thus if one is observed (and unentangled) to be vertically polarized, the other will be horizontally polarized. It is the same with two entangled electrons with zero net spin. observation will of one as spin up, makes the other also untangled have spin down. - No communication.

What is strange / counter to human experience is that electrons and photons don't need to have any one location - they can be spread out over miles of space, but if observed, they are localized. I have done interference of light (photons) when each photon passing thru the two path interferometer was (without observation) more than a meter from itself. Photons ONLY can interfere with themselves, not other photons. That is why you do not need a coherent light source to demonstrate an interference pattern (each photon is coherent with itself.)

I'll try to find my post describing how one measures the length of photons as I used a two path interferometer to do that; however the search function does not find any post of mine since I was restored as Billy T from Billy T2. I found it at science forums:

I have measured the length of some photons and shown one photon can in a classical sense be far (four feet) from itself! Here is how you do that:

Posting now below a crude "typed" drawing (in two parts):
Extended light source and lens making parallel beams (0nly one shown below) but each part of the source makes a beam at very slightly different angles:
*
*
*
...............................................................()===== This beam enters beam splitter "a" shown below (this part of drawing separated for ease of construction.)
*
*


Ok, that is best I could do. (If I made lens () taller then parts of the light source, represented by some * , would be too far above or below lens.)

Below is one of the slightly divergent beams (only one shown), leaving the lens and going to first 45 degree beam splitter "a" and going straight thru with part (of same photon) going up to hit 45 degree mirror, b, too, which makes it again traveling parallel to the entering beam.
Sorry that these beam splitters and mirrors are not shown actually at 45 degrees - but that is best a "typed drawing" can do.
.........................................................d
..........................b/======/======.....This is the path of "self- rejoined" photon to the screen thru another lense one focal length from it.
............................||..........................||
............................||..........................||
............................||..........................||
............................||..........................||
()===== / ======/c
Lens.....................a
Optically an "extended source" with lens one focal lengh from it followed by a second lense one focal length from the screen, just images the source (up side down) on the screen. Inserting these beam splitters and mirrors does not change that. It only make it possible for slightly differing path "split photons" to arrive at the screen where they would have but now they "want" to get back in phase with them selves, and do so as best a they can. Leaving dark lines where if they can not become "particles" there as they would not exist there since their waves are 180 degrees out of phase with themselves there. Note almost all the time photons can be thought of as waves, but if detected / absorbed they "die as particles" in one spot - not spread out over miles as they can be when waves.

Note that the length of paths: abd and acd, are the same. I.e. when the separate SINGLE photo get back together with itself, after being at times in its flight it 4 feet from itself, it arrives at the screen, unified, at the same time, but some of the many slightly divergent beams arriving there are "out of phase" with themselves and cancel (make dark interference lines) on the screen. The diverse in angle beams following paths abd & acd are exactly the same length ONLY for paths with pairs of equal angle degree corners. (parallelograms or rectangles.)

I will not go into details, but it is well known that photons ONLY interfere with themselves (and proven by using such low intensity sources that most of the time not even one exist - long exposure film, still has an interference pattern on the developed film, etc.) This is why one only needs monochromatic light, but not coherent light, source to produce interference patterns.

Now here is what you do to measure the length of a photon: You rotate beam splitter a very slightly counter clockwise, so that the path ab passes to the left of mirror at b, but pull mirror b back to still be hit by that now tilted beam. You of course must also rotate mirror b slightly clockwise, so the beam leaving it follows the old path to beam splitter d again. Now the corner turned at b is not 90 degrees. Perhaps this adds 5 cm of extra length to path abd.
What one sees on the screen is that there is a little light where there was none. I. e. the interference pattern on the screen is a little "washed out." This slight twisting of a & b is increased and then the pattern is more washed out. I kept repeating this until with ~30 cm extra path length for abd, the screen was with uniform illumination.

Crudely speaking this implies that none of the part of the photon going via path abd had yet arrived at the screen before the full length of the part of the same photon going by path acd had already disappeared into the screen. I.e. my spectral line source was making photons that were about 30cm long.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top