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Cris wrote:
Depends which god you mean. But the Christian god cannot exist because the claims made for it are paradoxical, i.e. they form an impossible combination. If he can’t exist then clearly he doesn’t exist.
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What? So if I believed that you don't exist, you cease to be? You say "the claims made for it are paradoxical". And you call me vague. What exact "claims" do you mean?
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Cris wrote:
Christianity claims their god is omniscient and that man has free will. This is an impossible combination.
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Says who? You? You are now God? It is up to you to decide that free will and omnisience is impossible? God knows what we will or will not choose, but he does not force us to make decisions. Look Cris, just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it is impossible. How do you expect to fully understand an infinite God with a finite mind?
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Cris wrote:
Omniscience means perfect knowledge of everything that is going to happen. Note that this isn’t clairvoyance but certain and perfect knowledge.
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Right.
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Cris wrote:
This means that from the moment of creation this god would have perfect knowledge of every event that is ever going to happen right until the end of the universe. This also means that every human event and decision will be perfectly pre-determined from the beginning of time.
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You are talking about predestination versus freewill. This is a great theological debate in protestantism. John Calvin believed in predestination. He said God chose who was to be saved. Others have disagreed. This webpage explains it very clearly:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/5742/FREEWILL.HTML
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Cris wrote:
If every such event is pre-determined than man cannot have free-will to make any other choices other than that that has already been pre-determined. If man could make a decision that had not been pre-determined then that implies that this god would not know about it in advance in which case he could not be omniscient.
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You are mistaking pre-knowledge with pre-determined. If I KNEW you were going to do a cannonball into the pool, then later you actually did a cannonball into the pool, you wouldn't say I MADE you do it. I simply knew ahead of time that you
would do it.
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Cris wrote:
If this god is not omniscient then he cannot be omnipotent since if he is unaware of future events then he is clearly not all-powerful. So if he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent then clearly he isn’t a god as defined by Christianity.
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Omnipotent means all powerful. God CAN do all things. That doesn't mean he DOES all things. There are many things God refuses to do. Tolerate sin for instance. Punish us without reason, punish us without the opportunity to be redeemed, etc.
Besides you have contradicted yourself. You said earlier that if God knows the future then he pre-determines things, but then you say he seems to be unaware of future things and is therefore NOT God. So in your mind GOD can't win. If he knows the future he is bad. If he doesn't he is bad. You are very mixed up on this issue.
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Cris wrote:
However, if he is omnipotent and omniscient then man cannot have free-will. If man has no free–will then the claim that man can make a free choice to accept the Christian savior or not is a mockery since those that do choose and those that don’t’ would have been predetermined by this god from the moment of creation.
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The very fact you reject God is proof of man's free will, or are you saying God is making you reject him?
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Cris wrote:
Or in other words he would have seemingly arbitrarily chosen some to go to hell and others to go to heaven.
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Arbitrarily? You accept Jesus or you do not. This is not arbitrary. This is a clear choice. Any who accept, will be saved. ANY!
Here is a possible solution. Why don't you just accept Jesus, then you will instantly become one of those people "pre-determined" by God from time immemorial to be a Christian?
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Cris wrote:
Man would have had no choice in the matter since these choices would have been made at the moment of creation before any man had ever made any choices.
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Again just because God may know what your choices will be, does not mean he makes those choices for you. You tell us... did God make you choose to reject him?
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Cris wrote:
If the Christian god is omnipotent and omniscient then man cannot have free-will since all events will have been perfectly pre-determined.
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Wrong. This has been dealt with above.
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Cris wrote:
If man has true free-will then the Christian god cannot be omniscient and therefore cannot be omnipotent and hence cannot be a god.
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You are saying that since God did not know that you (Cris) were going to grow up and reject him (who says he didn't know?), he can't exist because then he would not be all powerful? Here is what you are saying in syllogistic form:
The limited God argument
1. God supposedly knows everything (past, present, future).
2. God supposedly is all powerful.
2. I reject him.
3. Had he known I would choose to reject him, he would have
made me believe. Ergo, he is neither omnicient nor omnipotent.
4. Therefore God doesn't exist.
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cris wrote:
If man has free-will then the Christian god does not exist.
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Says who?
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Cris wrote:
If the Christian god exists then man cannot have free will
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This statement begs the question = says who? You? Since this statement is false, your follow up paragraph is based on a false premise and is therefore also false. Here is your follow up paragraph based on a false premise YOU made as fact...
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...in which case man is merely a puppet at the hands of a monster who takes pleasure in arbitrarily inflicting eternal torture on one group of humans while arbitrarily selecting another group for eternal pleasure. However, if such a god is such a monster then he clearly cannot be a god of love and hence since that also conflicts with the Christian definition of god then clearly the Christian god cannot exist.
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Your final argument then against the existence of God here boils down to:
1. God is purported to be "loving".
2. Eternal damnation is not "loving".
3. Therefore God doesn't exist.
Correction. God is loving to those who love him back, and accept him. As long as we are alive, it is not too late to accept his free offer of salvation.
-Mike