Proof God doesn't exist?

E

Ekimklaw

Believer in God
Registered Senior Member
Heres another syllogism for you...

The complication argument

1. Science is very very complicated.

2. Since time and evolution are levered on a bias of complex scientific rational, and irregardless of the indefatigable, non-optimal ergodically processed closed-path measurements, this method evolved a low-level object grouping condition. As the literature attests, this method, given its limitations, refutes post-incremental performance. In other words, the polymorphic state of the "condolesian" distance, discriminator, noted by n-dimensional space, vis a vis distinctions and mutations, as implied before, in the polymorphic state of the nocuous phenomenon, which can gridlock mutational improvement also negates the alpha-max algorythm family.

3. Therefore God doesn't exist. :D


-Mike
 
what bs:rolleyes: :bugeye:,
can't you christians write smth logical? or it is too much asked?:rolleyes:
 
While I know definately that I can't say anything for sure, I'd like the more higher vocabulary know-ists here to read out if you acually said anything, or just bubbled a bunch of gibberish =?
 
I'd like you to quote one sciforum member who's tried to prove god doesn't exist.
 
Gee maybe some of you will EVOLVE a sense of humor.

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Tyler wrote:
"I'd like you to quote one sciforum member who's tried to prove god doesn't exist."
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Good point Tyler. You're mostly right. You haven't tried to prove He doesn't exist. You all mainly just gain-say whatever assertion Christians make. ;)

Oh, here's another common atheistic syllogism for you:

The Guilt-By-Association argument
1. Christians believe in God.
2. I do not like Christians.
3. Therefore God doesn't exist.

-Mike
 
I like Christians. Especially when barbequed over a hickory fire. Mmmmmmmmm.

*Dodges flames, giggling*
 
Originally posted by Xev
I like Christians. Especially when barbequed over a hickory fire. Mmmmmmmmm.

*Dodges flames, giggling*
Click to expand...

Try us raw, we make more sense that way!

-Mike
 
"Ha... just joking Xev!"

Oh, but I AM odd!

"Try us raw, we make more sense that way!"

Sushi! I like!

I like you Elkimlaw. I think I will call you "Mike" now and apologize for calling you names.

Wait, I should insult you one last time:

NOONER-HEAD!

Okay, sorry. I mis-judged you. You're cool.
 
tyler,

I'd like you to quote one sciforum member who's tried to prove god doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Depends which god you mean. But the Christian god cannot exist because the claims made for it are paradoxical, i.e. they form an impossible combination. If he can’t exist then clearly he doesn’t exist.

Christianity claims their god is omniscient and that man has free will. This is an impossible combination. Omniscience means perfect knowledge of everything that is going to happen. Note that this isn’t clairvoyance but certain and perfect knowledge.

This means that from the moment of creation this god would have perfect knowledge of every event that is ever going to happen right until the end of the universe. This also means that every human event and decision will be perfectly pre-determined from the beginning of time.

If every such event is pre-determined than man cannot have free-will to make any other choices other than that that has already been pre-determined. If man could make a decision that had not been pre-determined then that implies that this god would not know about it in advance in which case he could not be omniscient.

If this god is not omniscient then he cannot be omnipotent since if he is unaware of future events then he is clearly not all-powerful. So if he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent then clearly he isn’t a god as defined by Christianity.

However, if he is omnipotent and omniscient then man cannot have free-will. If man has no free–will then the claim that man can make a free choice to accept the Christian savior or not is a mockery since those that do choose and those that don’t’ would have been predetermined by this god from the moment of creation. Or in other words he would have seemingly arbitrarily chosen some to go to hell and others to go to heaven. Man would have had no choice in the matter since these choices would have been made at the moment of creation before any man had ever made any choices.

Summary.

If the Christian god is omnipotent and omniscient then man cannot have free-will since all events will have been perfectly pre-determined.

If man has true free-will then the Christian god cannot be omniscient and therefore cannot be omnipotent and hence cannot be a god.

Conclusion.

If man has free-will then the Christian god does not exist.

If the Christian god exists then man cannot have free will in which case man is merely a puppet at the hands of a monster who takes pleasure in arbitrarily inflicting eternal torture on one group of humans while arbitrarily selecting another group for eternal pleasure. However, if such a god is such a monster then he clearly cannot be a god of love and hence since that also conflicts with the Christian definition of god then clearly the Christian god cannot exist.

Therefore the Christian god does not exist.

Cris
 
Interesting Cris

We already argued about that aspect, but what about the predictions of Nostradamus, how did he know about events to happen? He predicted events of Hitler, and etc. He is not always right but 50% is pretty damn good.

Or maybe it was all a big and very very very very very lucky set of guesses :D

There's a difference between prediction and pre-determination.
 
Chosen,

Notice I stated that omniscience is not clairvoyance. It is perfect knowledge. If it is combined with the omnipotent power to create then the result is pre-determination and not prediction.

I have a wide selection of books on the big N and I studied him in some detail about 12 years ago and even started work with a published author on another book. His claims are total gibberish, although that was not my belief when I started researching.

Cris
 
Originally posted by Cris
I have a wide selection of books on the big N and I studied him in some detail about 12 years ago and even started work with a published author on another book. His claims are total gibberish, although that was not my belief when I started researching.

Cris
Click to expand...

Yes, the problem lies once again on the translations of his quatrains...I don't absolutely rule that he is a false prophet, but there could be some validity in his claims.

Interpretations are a very big problem.

But could you inform me on why you believe all this about Nostradamus?
 
Chosen,

If you look closely at the clouds in the sky you will be able to find many shapes that appear to resemble such things as animal shapes, human faces, etc. You know these aren't real.

Similarly Ns texts are so vague that if you stare at them hard enough and look through all the myriad events in history then you will find some texts or parts of texts that seem to fit.

But the subjectivity is extraordinary. When you then read the texts in an objective manner they simply can't be used to make the alleged claims of prediction.

Without a key to dates and times then the alleged texts are worthless. The book I had hoped to help with was by an author who had claimed to have found a hidden key in the texts that showed dates and times. She published some predictions based on this alleged key. The dates came and went and the events never occured.

I really gave up at that point especially since my French is poor, and my understanding of the french of N was even worse.

Cris
 
Yes I see

My teacher and I discussed about N and basically he said that the quatrains are so vague it could almost fit any scenario...and the different translations even made it more of a mess.

Some people believe he is full of crap, others believe he isn't.

I just remain skeptic about the whole thing. All we have are stories...
 
Originally posted by Cris
If he can’t exist then clearly he doesn’t exist.

What is God in your opinion?

Christianity claims their god is omniscient and that man has free will.

Omniscient \Om*nis"cient\, a. [Omni- + L. sciens, -entis, p. pr. of scire to know: cf. F. omniscient. Having universal knowledge; knowing all things; infinitely knowing or wise; as, the omniscient God.

Free.. Exempt from subjection to the will of others; not under restraint, control, or compulsion; able to follow one's own impulses, desires, or inclinations; determining one's own course of action; not dependent; at liberty.

Will.. The power of choosing; the faculty or endowment of the soul by which it is capable of choosing; the faculty or power of the mind by which we decide to do or not to do; the power or faculty of preferring or selecting one of two or more objects.

This is an impossible combination. Omniscience means perfect knowledge of everything that is going to happen.
Note that this isn’t clairvoyance but certain and perfect knowledge.

Omniscience means “all knowing,” false knowledge is not knowledge, it is ignorance.
Lets say you have an election, the two candidates who are up for leadership, although outwardly opposites, are inwardly controlled by the same organisation either know or unknown to each candidate.
This means that the voting public have a choice, but a limited choice, therefore the controlling organisation “knows” exactly what the outcome will be.
All this is unbeknown to the public who believe they are exercising their right to vote. As far as the context goes, the organisation is “all knowing.”

Human beings are limited, we see all this wonderful technology and think we have advanced, but the truth is we are in the same or possibly worse position, we have moved from a bullock cart to a motor car, but we choose not to realise we are creating more problems not only for ourselves and future generations, but for the planet.
This type of material progression is not very hard to understand from Gods point of view, because he understands our mentality perfectly.
I conclude therefore that what is “knowledge” as meant in the term “omniscient” is not the day to day decisions we all make, but the type of nature that allows us to act in a certain way. There are not many conclusions to this limited lifespan.

Love

Jan Ardena.
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Well that's nice for you Jan but you do realize you're contradicting English there.

"knowing ALL things."

I'm pretty sure the word "all" encorporates everything, including day-to-day life, hm? So enjoy your definition but it ain't the English one.
 
Originally posted by Tyler
Well that's nice for you Jan but you do realize you're contradicting English there.

"knowing ALL things."
I'm pretty sure the word "all" encorporates everything, including day-to-day life, hm? So enjoy your definition but it ain't the English one.
Click to expand...


I am not contradicting English at all, it is the definition as put foreward by the websters revised unabridged dictionary.

Freewill \Free"will`\, a. Of or pertaining to free will; voluntary; spontaneous; as, a freewill offering.

"Knowledge" is the point, not the innumerable possibilities of obtaining it.
When you work out the answer to a problem, "knowledge" is the "answer," the working out is just a means to get the answer.
Our moment to moment actions are performed for a result.

Love

Jan Ardena.





Love

Jan Ardena.
 
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