Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Just checking. Thanks.
Problematic heaven.
- Thread starter SnakeLord
- Start date
Just checking. Thanks.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
no problem
feel free to drop in again anytime
Just wanted to be sure you followed through your own logic.
I will use you answers when appropriate
Just wanted to be sure you followed through your own logic.
I will use you answers when appropriate
fine
any time you need a clarification, just let me know
Maybe you walked in to the wrong thread but we're not talking about Cleopatra or dreaming and needless to say your statement doesn't answer the question posed: will you or wont you give a damn about your human loved ones when you're dead? It's really just a yes or no.
Of course you believe that we get reincarnated and that when we do we don't have the same loved ones - our daughters could be born to someone else.. this is what you've told me. As such the only thing you needed to say was "no". Seriously, I'll just answer for you next time which will save you bogging down my thread with your irrelevancies.
What's all a dream? Heaven/hell? Eternal life? So none of what is espoused in scripture is real, that's what you're telling me?
The NT disagrees, but you're entitled to your belief.
For the sake of discussion that's acceptable but not really what my post was about.
Let me clarify: you use "spiritual life" in regard to an afterlife/heavenly existence?
Interesting but not really relevant to what I was trying to get at. Of course I would tend to disagree - there is great variety. I would even proceed to ask how you can make claim to this considering you're an admitted celibate.
Snakelord
no
everyone, as indicated
the details which a person accepts as granting something the status of extremely fascinating are fascinating in themselves
or vice versa - lol
I guess beauty must lie in the eye of the beholder or something ....
hey, if you were dreaming you were cleopatra and had something serious going on with julius, you certainly would give a damn - until of course you woke up .....
actually my answer had nothing to do with reincarnation
okay here's a succinct answer for you then
no
even conditioned life is sometimes defined as eternal in the vedas - but you're entitled to your belief ......
no
everyone, as indicated
quite simply
the details which a person accepts as granting something the status of extremely fascinating are fascinating in themselves
or vice versa - lol
hence my statement
I guess beauty must lie in the eye of the beholder or something ....
"Hey" nothing. My thread is not concerned with Cleopatra or dreaming.
My thread had nothing to do with dreaming or Cleopatra. Didn't stop you.
Furthermore, my response to your "answer" (very loosely defined) wasn't about reincarnation either. It was merely to provide a real answer for you based upon certain things you have told me in other threads because you can't provide an answer by yourself.
Just a shame you got it in the wrong place. If you open your eyes you'll see the first part of my question was: "What's all a dream?"
When you use the word 'what' at the beginning of a question you must understand that the answer cannot come in yes or no format. When you use "will" at the beginning of a question the answer should come in a yes or no format, (at least start with a yes or no and then provide details).
So, what's all a dream, (take into account that you said to me "it's all a dream"). This requires explanation - because the question started with 'what'. I know you're new to all this, but you'll get the hang of it eventually.
I apologise if it appears to be discrimination but the article concentrates on a specific heaven/hell outlook only - I could not cater for every single persons views on the matter.
Well that's quite strange because the "everyone" wasn't a part of the claimed "spiritual life" but where the concerns of those in a spiritual life are focused. You should know this, you wrote it.
I was trying to clarify whether you meant material beings living a spiritual life or an actual spiritual life as in an afterlife. If you meant the former I would have to disagree unless all spiritual people are vegetarians and animal rights activists. If they're not you really can't argue that they're "concerned about all living entities".
... not relevant to anything in my thread.
Where did this come from? I even used control+f on both pages and don't see one place where I actually said this. Is this the new improved lg tactic? Make up quotes? :shrug:
Given that you're an "unbeholder", of what value is your opinion?
-----
If you are asserting that it's all the fathers fault, (or perhaps the grandfather, or great grandfather, or great great grandather as also shown in the bible), then fair enough - it actually changes nothing as to whose fault it is. It is concerned more with how a person missing the love of their life would cope in an eternal setting without them. If they care like they would as a human then ultimately heaven is no better a place than hell - one is merely physical torture the other is mental torture. Which is worse? I'll let you decide.
No.
You say to be in a better place you need certain things, this is understandable. In order for it to be this better place you would get what you want- your daughter, at least there is the possibility of this happening- ultimately it is up to her. Too many variables, but i think this makes your original post obsolete.
You say to be in a better place you need certain things, this is understandable. In order for it to be this better place you would get what you want- your daughter, at least there is the possibility of this happening- ultimately it is up to her. Too many variables, but i think this makes your original post obsolete.
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be where? you said she goes to hell and the father goes to heaven. heaven for him is with his daughter...specifically his daughter will come to him- that is the benefit. people can change...forgiveness. dont you know where we learned to forgive?:yawn:
what is there not to understand, why does she have to stay in hell? seems to me that to be in heaven the father would need what he wants most.
Snakelord
well suppose after having the dream that I had serious thing going with Julius ceaser as cleopatra, I begin another dream that I am a Norwegian tomato farmer who is always in anxiety about how he is going to accrue enough wealth to support his 5 young daughters
(in other words reincarnation doesn't ultimately solve any issue of real relationship, since the basis of such relationship is the body - which is quite predictable)
BG 2.16: Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both.
it was an answer to your last question of the three
how about this one?
So none of what is espoused in scripture is real, that's what you're telling me?
Hence spiritual persons est according to scriptural injunctions
BG 3.13 The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin.
possessed of unlimited intelligence, god recommends
BG 9.26: If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.
BG 9.27: Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, and whatever austerities you perform — do that, O son of Kuntī, as an offering to Me.
BG 9.28: In this way you will be freed from bondage to work and its auspicious and inauspicious results. With your mind fixed on Me in this principle of renunciation, you will be liberated and come to Me.
2) Although some clearly don’t have the problem that I do, I cannot establish how there is any remote value or worth in worshipping one entity for all eternity.
sounds like boredom to me ....
what you anoint as marvelous is incredibly mundane - there is nothing exclusive about it and it is the direct perception of practically everyone, if not all species of life
as regards theistic claims, it is you who is an unbeholder
-
It is about the sentiments that we have for persons, and let me tell you, if you had a dream that you were Cleopatra and had something serious going on with Julius, you certainly would give a damn ... until you woke up of course
you realize that you are offending all people who have had dreams that they were cleopatra and a thing going with Julius ... until they woke up that is
Oh I see
well suppose after having the dream that I had serious thing going with Julius ceaser as cleopatra, I begin another dream that I am a Norwegian tomato farmer who is always in anxiety about how he is going to accrue enough wealth to support his 5 young daughters
(in other words reincarnation doesn't ultimately solve any issue of real relationship, since the basis of such relationship is the body - which is quite predictable)
BG 2.16: Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both.
it was an answer to your last question of the three
how about this one?
So none of what is espoused in scripture is real, that's what you're telling me?
the bodily relationships you have in this world
conditioned life is hell
even vegetarians eat other living entities, albeit the ones that are not likely to writhe around on the floor in agony drowning in their own blood and also who's production and consumption is likely to result in damage to the environment of the landscape or one's digestive tract.
Hence spiritual persons est according to scriptural injunctions
BG 3.13 The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin.
possessed of unlimited intelligence, god recommends
BG 9.26: If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.
BG 9.27: Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, and whatever austerities you perform — do that, O son of Kuntī, as an offering to Me.
BG 9.28: In this way you will be freed from bondage to work and its auspicious and inauspicious results. With your mind fixed on Me in this principle of renunciation, you will be liberated and come to Me.
thats right your thread has absolutely nothing to do with value judgments and deals exclusively with the nature of (cough cough) objective reality
2) Although some clearly don’t have the problem that I do, I cannot establish how there is any remote value or worth in worshipping one entity for all eternity.
sounds like boredom to me ....
herein lies the problem
what you anoint as marvelous is incredibly mundane - there is nothing exclusive about it and it is the direct perception of practically everyone, if not all species of life
as regards theistic claims, it is you who is an unbeholder
-
Cleaopatra heh, Norwegian tomato farmers heh..
Get out of my thread.
How are they a dream?
Your personal opinion is wonderful. However it needs to be said once again that this thread was concentrating on a specific view of heaven and hell - ergo the places where people go when they're dead, 'good' people to heaven/'bad' to hell and how one would cope with the knowledge that a loved one was in the other place. Perhaps you would be better off in a different thread.
Aww, how sweet.
If you claim to be aware of what my thread is or is not about.. Why bother interrupting it with stuff that this thread is not about? Your time will be better spent elsewhere. Shoo.
Although boredom might very well become an aspect of eternal servitude, the problem indicated is more as to 'why' - where is the value in such a notion? What makes a being feel it should be served for eternity merely on the basis that it created these other beings? It seems a tad too self centered for my liking, thus I question it's value and worth. Next time do the decent thing and quote what is actually said, and then question it.
Once again: as an unbeholder, of what value is your opinion?
What does exclusivity have to do with anything?
Snakelord
they appear for some time and then disappear - much like one's session as cleopatra or a norweigian tomato farmer
so you want to pass on the subject of eternal hell?
with the added advantage of lessening one's chances of developing cancer of the colon and efficiency in food production too
maybe you would be better off writing all your ideas on bits of paper you could store in a drawer rather than posting them on debate forums .... particularly if you insist on using words as indicated below
I guess they don't find it boring for a start
probably because it is a better experience than any of the run of the mill things one can encounter in practically any species of life
absorption in the activities of one's body and things related to one's body is the munificent alternative?
as already indicated, what you are in delight of is boldly apparent to even hogs, dogs and camels
with your claim that I am an unbeholder
So uhh, anything that exists for some time and then ceases to exist is a dream? Lol..
Eh?
Offering a leaf to god lessens ones chances of getting colon cancer? K then.
I do that too. However, I like to post these things for people to discuss them. Many have done so but it seems only you couldn't figure out what it was related to and so decided to regale me with stories of tomato farmers and the gods desires for bananas and grapefruit instead.
Then your brain is clearly wired differently. Perhaps your time would be better spent in a different thread. Thanks.
How do you know that? What validates your claim?
Hmm.. worship a talking cloud or enjoy the life that I have.. Let me think for a moment..
O....k, and that's an issue.. how/why?
Eh? How does that follow on from what was being said lol? How does an activity not being exclusive and done by pretty much all species of life make that activity mundane?
And.. if you don't engage in such activity, how can your claim that it is mundane be taken seriously?