Probability of God

Originally posted by Jenyar
Heflores - it seems we are picking on you :)

God has created you, therefore He must know that you exist. The worst you can do is deny this. If God created you in the first place, and you are always known to Him - aren't you always walking on holy ground? 'Here' is everywhere you can reach. For God, 'here' is therefore everywhere, because He can reach everywhere. You are always in His presence.
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When god created me Jenyar, he gave me all the tools I need to believe in him and do right....I must use my tools appropriately as they have been assigned to me.....It's god tools....so he decides whether they have been used correctly or not....I just use them...and hope not to abuse them..

As far as god is love.....I agree completely....But to a degree...Everything is to a degree...

let's say for example that you own 2 cars, and you need them both...one car is a Volvo...the best of course.....the other is a stinkin ford....both are doing the job and not breaking...but one runs a little smoother than the other....what would you do:

1- Throw the stinkin ford
2- Change the ford motor with a volvo mottor.

I think that I just need to run the best I can, so I'm deemed fit later for my creator to fix any mistakes....I don't want to do any mistakes that might not be repairable like drive myself to his 16 year old son so he crash me and total me like the drunk looser he is.....

Just my stupid prespective though
 
Heflores,

I don't think it's stupid - actually your devotion is admirable. Of course He wants us to treat other people with the same respect we have for Him. I just want to know whether you believe God tells us how He wants us to live, and whether you think we are left on our own and have to try to be good enough for Him.

To use your analogy: If you built both cars yourself, you would love each one of them because you know how much time and effort you put into them. You built one for racing, and another one for driving your family around in. Like the Bible says, every one of us is a part of the same body - the nose can't say he is better than the eye, or the legs they are better than the arms. The important thing is that we use our body to do God's will, and that it to love each other and to love Him as He loves us.

If you were a drunk loser, you would be pouring whiskey into a car that needed unleaded petrol. God gave us His Spirit to be with us so that we would have help in cleaning our systems. He does not need us to be clean first, because He is the one who cleans us! He makes us holy, not the other way around.
 
He may only make us holly if we are deemed fit to start with...

And how can we be deemed fit and we have free will and ability to choose

It is not a contradiction at all.....To bridge the gap...you need a testing period to decide whether the creation is fit or not.

Our actions will deem us fit or unfit.

This is the thing that if we figure out will get us out of the viscious Atheistic cycle...I pray for that everyday.....I pray for everyone.

Do you suggest that god deems holly everyone the fit and the unfit.

By god deciding to help me or not in this life....then god have judged me in this life....and then what is the purpose of hell and heaven...I don't get your analogy of how god can be a prejudice god that will judge us in this life....God is mercy and he allows respite....he doesn't interfere with our nature...he doesn't confuse us....he wants us to figure this out by ourselves.

Jesus, Mose, all the profits....submitted in the most powerfull way...Check the bible and you'll see a common denominator....Submittion..What power could bring a holly person to literally go down to the floor with his head in a symbol of utter devotion.
 
heflores,

What power could bring a holly person to literally go down to the floor with his head in a symbol of utter devotion.
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I take that as a question....
By surrendering to God you allow Him to act through you. You are actually letting His will be done through you.Surrendering to God also brings Wisdom, Faith, Love, etc...
 
truthseeker,

hefs original question -

What power could bring a holly person to literally go down to the floor with his head in a symbol of utter devotion.
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And your answer -

By surrendering to God you allow Him to act through you. You are actually letting His will be done through you.Surrendering to God also brings Wisdom, Faith, Love, etc...
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Well no that doesn't answer hef's question.

The correct answer to what power is involved is twofold -

1. The indoctrination and brainwashing techniques that have been used by religions throughout the ages.

2. The ability of the human mind to allow itself to be easily fooled especially in those with a strong disposition to gullibility and emotionalism.
 
Cris, you have absolutly no idea about what I'm talking about...:bugeye:

Read the Bible...:bugeye:
 
truthseeker,

Cris, you have absolutly no idea about what I'm talking about...

Read the Bible...
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But I know exactly what you are talking about, I also recognize that you have been well and trully conned and have bought the greatest story ever sold.
 
But I know exactly what you are talking about, I also recognize that you have been well and trully conned and have bought the greatest story ever sold.
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Brainwashed by capitalism and consumism...:rolleyes:
Oh... and the media, of course...:rolleyes:
 
Truthseeker,

Brainwashed by capitalism and consumism...
Oh... and the media, of course...
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But a very compassionate capitalist, and someone who understands how a healthy economy can help those in real need. When people stop buying then people lose jobs and that spirals downwards into chaos, misery and death.

Consumerism is fun, it is a part of life, it is not life, only those who cannot see the difference are the ones who feel trapped and confused.
 
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Brainwashed by capitalism and consumism...:rolleyes:
Oh... and the media, of course...:rolleyes:
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You obviously haven't read or disagree with Tiassa's essays on the tie between Christianity and capitalism.

And tell me the media isn't Christian biased...I always roll my eyes when newscasters, usually local ones, express their beliefs in side comments, most often Christian based. Rarely do you see mention of other faiths in a good life, and I cannot recall myself seeing an athiestic view, short of when its a political story.

Brainwashed indeed.
 
All I can say is the smartest people I have ever encountered, both in science and history are all theist, the most flawed, meaningless, empty, illogical argument comes from an atheist..AND IM SERIOUS...Thats from my experience, you can have faith in what I said, or find out for yourself, your choice..........
 
But a very compassionate capitalist, and someone who understands how a healthy economy can help those in real need. When people stop buying then people lose jobs and that spirals downwards into chaos, misery and death.
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Praise God for that. Although you're tlaking about charity, not consumerism. Consumerism is the privilege of the wealthy - talk about brainwashing: convincing people their lives are inclomplete without a product. Don't get me wrong, I have just as much fun with pop culture, having studied visual communication and information science ... but wanting money and giving money isn't the same thing.

An economy can only exist where there is supply and demand. It's a vicious/fun cycle that only gets rolling if the resources are available and there is money to be made. People in real need are those people who are already surrounded by chaos, misery and death. Even Bill Gates will have trouble giving hope to the citizens of Iraq if a war starts. It's ironic that their oil could have such an impact on the economy of the capitalist world, when the war is supposed to protect its interests in the first place. And this war isn't waged under a Christian banner or against religious fanatics. It's political and economical.
 
Here's my thought (more like a what-if)

God was created by man to answer all questions man could not answer. If something could not be explained, a god must have done it.

I'm not atheist, I just don't believe in any specific religion (how do we know which one is right?)
 
Tallguy: that is the view most athiests default to, and also the most simplistic view possible.

Although it might be the first step towards thinking about God - and many people never progress past this thought before dismissing God altogether - it doesn't hold up for very long if you are honest about your belief. From outside, it can only be true if you ignore the lives of the majority of believers.

In most cases, religion actually addresses questions people would not have bothered asking in the first place. Such as why we need salvation. And that is the main message of most religions.

What religions differ about, is exactly what we need to be saved from, and how it is attained. Hindus for example believe we need to ultimately escape a perpetual existence through hightened awareness. However, once you earnestly start looking for God, you will gradually discover that many religions serve two masters: the 'self' and the 'god'. The more 'self' there is, the less 'god' there will be. Only a few religions really care about seeking God's will, and about the relationship between God and the individual. In the end it comes down to a personal relationship.

Many people find the idea of a personal God even more ridiculous that the existence of God in the first place. But you can imagine that a relationship has to include attention and communication. In my own life I have learned a lot about God from just paying very close attention to my own relationship with people I love.

Start on your own. Block out all religions, and pray. If there is only one God to follow, only He will hear you. Ask Him to lead you to Him. Don't try to do anything by your own strength or intellect - that comes afterwards - or to force God to obey you. Many people have demanded that God show Himself so they might believe. This is equivalent to the opposite, so accurately described by Terry Pratchett:
standing on a hilltop in wet copper armour, shouting "all gods are bastards", and waiting to see if anything happens.
Trying to manipulate God into submitting to your will is the same as trying to bribe Him.

Remember, the religion is there for people, not people for the religion. People are there for God, not God for people. If you forget that, it will be the same as looking in a mirror and expecting to see anything but your own face.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
Tallguy: that is the view most athiests default to, and also the most simplistic view possible. ...

In most cases, religion actually addresses questions people would not have bothered asking in the first place. Such as why we need salvation.
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Well, I'd certainly hate to be too simplistic. So perhaps another thread: "Why do we need salvation"?
 
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