Privacy?

N

Norsefire

Salam Shalom Salom
Registered Senior Member
Why are people so stubborn about "privacy", when they are in a public place? Is privacy, in a public place, really worth protecting where we could, instead, have security? And honestly what is so wrong with ID cards?

You can still be free and have all of these things; it means you will be secure and free. Honestly, crime could be cut down drastically if only we would let go of these pointless things and be willing to make a small sacrifice for the greater good. Besides, where was the right to privacy ever guaranteed?

Just a few basics: biometric ID implants, CCTV cameras, universal phone and internet monitoring, and tracking devices for previous offenders and the sort, I'm confident it would cut crime by alot, as well as by boosting our intelligence capabilities, and having more armed police patrol the streets passively.

Guys it is worth it!
 
Norsefire said:
Just a few basics: biometric ID implants, CCTV cameras, universal phone and internet monitoring, and tracking devices for previous offenders and the sort, I'm confident it would cut crime by alot, as well as by boosting our intelligence capabilities, and having more armed police patrol the streets passively.
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not everything is about hiding a crime. For instance say you and your partner are living away from eachother for whatever reason and you want to "play" over the phone

a) why shouldnt you?
b) would you really want someone lissioing in on that?

same with the internet

then there is the risk that the infomation could be used for political rather than protective reasons.
 
You do not fear the control and access this would give the government (any government) to your every move?

A government can easily slip into fascism of one sort or another. Giving it the ability to track me and my finances etc. at that level is more terrifying to me than any threat from an enemy.

Think about it.
 
superluminal said:
You do not fear the control and access this would give the government (any government) to your every move?

A government can easily slip into fascism of one sort or another. Giving it the ability to track me and my finances etc. at that level is more terrifying to me than any threat from an enemy.

Think about it.
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Apart from the police and ID cards, the monitoring doesn't have to be public; it could be privatized, but universal. Besides, even if it is from the government, the government is your friend and is there to protect you. And if it does become corrupt, we can always ensure measures to safeguard against that.
 
Norsefire said:
Besides, even if it is from the government, the government is your friend and is there to protect you. And if it does become corrupt, we can always ensure measures to safeguard against that.
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This seems like an incredibly naive point of view given the history of the world.

Really naive. I'm a bit suprised at you norse.
 
superluminal said:
This seems like an incredibly naive point of view given the history of the world.

Really naive. I'm a bit suprised at you norse.
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Of course governments have been corrupt, but that is because the system has always never had a countermeasure against it. We, in a democracy, do. Although of course, democracy is rather inefficient and imperfect; therefore I would propose an "absolutist democracy"

And we need to get rid of this "us and them" mentality; the nation, as a whole, of government and of the private sector, is one UNIFIED nation, all men should be in brotherhood, not in anticipation of betrayal or deception or corruption of each other.

Anyway, the government should be our friend and should protect us; if the police have good intel and capabilities, why not? It'd be beneficial to you, and to me.

Besides, the ID cards idea is perfect; barcode implants, and you'd have to verify your ID before using services, that way we can root out illegal immigrants.
 
Norsefire said:
Of course governments have been corrupt, but that is because the system has always never had a countermeasure against it. We, in a democracy, do. Although of course, democracy is rather inefficient and imperfect; therefore I would propose an "absolutist democracy"

And we need to get rid of this "us and them" mentality; the nation, as a whole, of government and of the private sector, is one UNIFIED nation, all men should be in brotherhood, not in anticipation of betrayal or deception or corruption of each other.

Anyway, the government should be our friend and should protect us; if the police have good intel and capabilities, why not? It'd be beneficial to you, and to me.

Besides, the ID cards idea is perfect; barcode implants, and you'd have to verify your ID before using services, that way we can root out illegal immigrants.
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No thanks. Your views are very optimistic about human nature and, to me, frighteningly unrealistic. I agree that we all "should" live in harmonious brotherhood with notnhing but love for one another. But we are not that way as a species, like it or not. We need serious checks and balances on those we choose to administer our nations. Especially in democracies.
 
actually i would be MUCH more concerned if it was private companies collecting that sort of infomation

Look at how much data the ABS has (talk about satilite 5:p), the only reason this isnt concerning is that there is so much legislation preventing ANYONE from accessing this infomation in any identifyable way
 
superluminal said:
No thanks. Your views are very optimistic about human nature and, to me, frighteningly unrealistic.
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With that kind of attitude, how can you expect anything else?

I agree that we all "should" live in harmonious brotherhood with notnhing but love for one another. But we are not that way as a species, like it or not.
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Precisely because of "tolerance", we become twisted, by allowing the twisted to twist us. We need the power to root out undesirables and advance ourselves, once and for all.

We need serious checks and balances on those we choose to administer our nations. Especially in democracies.
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What does that have to do with better security? Regardless, we can have checks and balances while still having a big brother government.
 
Norsefire said:
With that kind of attitude, how can you expect anything else?

Precisely because of "tolerance", we become twisted, by allowing the twisted to twist us. We need the power to root out undesirables and advance ourselves, once and for all.


What does that have to do with better security? Regardless, we can have checks and balances while still having a big brother government.
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No way my friend. I would be part of the revolution if it ever came to a "big brother" government. I'd be in the mountains staging raids on the bastards.

Again, we agree to disagree. Right?
 
superluminal said:
No way my friend. I would be part of the revolution if it ever came to a "big brother" government. I'd be in the mountains staging raids on the bastards.
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What's wrong with big brother? It's the only goddamn way we are going to get anywhere; you see, this is why Humanity is held back. Too many people are unwilling to make sacrifices and follow their will. If we do want brotherhood, we need to be universally united as one by our nation, to our nation, for our nation, and we need to be willing to exterminate threats to that unity. Fascist governments, funny enough, have always had strong unity.

I want to see Humanity united, and we aren't going to do this if we tolerate crime, ignorance, and filth.
 
Norsefire said:
Besides, even if it is from the government, the government is your friend and is there to protect you. And if it does become corrupt, we can always ensure measures to safeguard against that.
Click to expand...
Wow, is this Utopia you live in a real place or your personal dream? The government, any government is not your friend. They are self serving and could care less about you or anyone else. Leaders only give the people enough to keep them happy and stupified in order to stay in power, unless they go the other way and use intimidation and savagery. There is only one thing a government protects, itself. As for safeguarding against a corrupt government, it's more often than not easier said than done. Never trust a polotitian, elected or otherwise.
 
Norsefire said:
Why are people so stubborn about "privacy", when they are in a public place? Is privacy, in a public place, really worth protecting where we could, instead, have security? And honestly what is so wrong with ID cards?

You can still be free and have all of these things; it means you will be secure and free. Honestly, crime could be cut down drastically if only we would let go of these pointless things and be willing to make a small sacrifice for the greater good. Besides, where was the right to privacy ever guaranteed?

Just a few basics: biometric ID implants, CCTV cameras, universal phone and internet monitoring, and tracking devices for previous offenders and the sort, I'm confident it would cut crime by alot, as well as by boosting our intelligence capabilities, and having more armed police patrol the streets passively.

Guys it is worth it!
Click to expand...

No.

Just. NO!.

People commit suicide sometimes if their privacy is invaded and they themselves are exposed to the known world. It's a psychological protective barrier. A 13 year old boy committed suicide, when someone else's diary was published in a newspaper.

The government could do the same, and has done so, before, with always disastrous results.

Seriously. Stop being an idealistic twat, and learn that no one can be trusted with the power that your speaking about. You should:

1) Go talk to the survivors of Fascism in Chile, If there are any in the US
2) Go talk to a politician, see how they twist their words.
3) Stop thinking about fascism.
 
norsefire said:
You can still be free and have all of these things; it means you will be secure and free.
Click to expand...
How do I obtain security from people who can invade my privacy at will and without accountability ?
 
Norsefire said:
What's wrong with big brother? It's the only goddamn way we are going to get anywhere; you see, this is why Humanity is held back. Too many people are unwilling to make sacrifices and follow their will. If we do want brotherhood, we need to be universally united as one by our nation, to our nation, for our nation, and we need to be willing to exterminate threats to that unity. Fascist governments, funny enough, have always had strong unity.

I want to see Humanity united, and we aren't going to do this if we tolerate crime, ignorance, and filth.
Click to expand...

Oh god, you really have no idea do you? In the situation you describe 100% of our lives would be recorded, mainly becuase that is where the line would be drawn. The people in power would stay in power indefinately becuase they would paint their opposition to be the grossest of malcontents through creative editing. Not to mention that progress would be slowed to a crawl as anything not seen to conform would be repressed. Ths means no change, ever. Society in stagnation out of fear. Why, becuase as much as we would like to believe we are individulaist, mankind is a pack animal. We follow the mores of the alphas, we might ask a few questions and resist a bit, but only when we feel we have the room to.
 
Norsefire said:
Why are people so stubborn about "privacy", when they are in a public place? Is privacy, in a public place, really worth protecting where we could, instead, have security? And honestly what is so wrong with ID cards?

You can still be free and have all of these things; it means you will be secure and free. Honestly, crime could be cut down drastically if only we would let go of these pointless things and be willing to make a small sacrifice for the greater good. Besides, where was the right to privacy ever guaranteed?

Just a few basics: biometric ID implants, CCTV cameras, universal phone and internet monitoring, and tracking devices for previous offenders and the sort, I'm confident it would cut crime by alot, as well as by boosting our intelligence capabilities, and having more armed police patrol the streets passively.

Guys it is worth it!
Click to expand...
Yeah, peace of the gun. Not my cake.
Too much power in the hands of the government.
 
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