no
a contingent potency
just like smoke is a contingent potency of fire
contingent is not "regardless"
Pride is a sin, and God is full of it!
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a contingent potency
just like smoke is a contingent potency of fire
you would rather cease to exist?
the only problem is that we have decided to ignore god- once again, that's not god's problem - it's ours
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
you would rather cease to exist?
the only problem is that we have decided to ignore god- once again, that's not god's problem - it's ours
You are dodging..
You are dodging..
not at all
most people (even atheists) value their existence
how would you feel about the prospects of ceasing to exist?
and furthermore whatever difficulty we have at the moment is our own creation - we weren't forced to turn away from god, rather we made the decision to turn that way.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
You are still avoiding my original question.
What is the point in creating someone for the sole purpose of them being able to get the benefits of serving their creator ?
To cease to exist you must first exist, don't you agree ?
I can assure you that nobody would feel bad for never existing.
Clearly, the OP did not read the definition of pride and does not seem to allow or understand the concept of context- the OP has been proven wrong. So any posts will be considered off-topic and susceptible to cherry picking - Deletion. The original poster went as far as to quote Thomas Paine, obviously not realizing that HE was certainly no Atheist and did have serious emotional problems.
To answer SnekeLords query:
The 'other beings' were not created for the purpose of worshiping or serving GOD. Just as a frog was not created for this purpose or for that matter neither was a blade of grass. Curse the human brain - Fine, no problem.
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So we are an unavoidable aspect of gods existence? This god has no choice but for us to exist just like fire has no choice for smoke to come from it? So.. he didn't create us, we are ultimately like a spare leg? Humans have existed forever?
I see. So why were they?
Purely out of interest why did you write god in caps? Is it important to do so, does god get upset if you don't use capitals? Just curious.
sometimes the nature of being in existence is described as the causeless mercy of god - meaning that we didn't do anything to warrant such a state, but it is bestowed by magnanimity.
Existence has benefits with or without the service of god - service to god simple establishes a grander state of existence (namely not being bewildered by establishing eternal values on transient objects)
but having existed, we can quite easily discern the value of existing, even if our existence is highly saturated with illusory pursuits
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in one sense yes - omnipotency means all potencies must be exhibited, even the weaker potencies
kind of like a triangle has no choice but to have three sides
(meaning the definition of god as being omnipotent requires that we exist)
the living entity is eternal - sometimes in illusion and sometimes in a liberated state according to their use of free will
God remains unencumbered, regardless how we choose to utilize our free will
We however, don't share that capacity of being absolutely independent
I beg to differ. Omnipotency means all potencies, and not just the powerful ones (and as a further point, omnipotency also means that one can achieve with one potency what can ordinarily only be achieved with a different potency)
don't see why it is so difficult to understand
smoke is also separate from fire, and if the fire didn't have a creator, the smoke would also be eternal.
Of course the smoke is contingent on the fire and has no scope for existence independent from the fire
Dictionary does not. Hmm, you or the given definition... Hmmm..
What? I got it, I simply repeated what you have said thus far. We were not created, we are eternal and we're also distinctly separate from this god entity. Of course from the perspective of analogy, smoke is created by the fire. Of course fire has no choice, so you're saying god has no choice.
my first post - (ie god has eternal contingent potencies, of which the living entity is one)
my second post - a contingent eternal potency wouldn't be a creation
my third post - no
a contingent potency
just like smoke is a contingent potency of fire
my sixth post - Of course the smoke is contingent on the fire and has no scope for existence independent from the fire
in the course of your "just repeating" it appears you are neglecting a particular key word
A word you undoubtedly have your own obscure little definition for. Give me a tick or a cross for the following:
1) We are not created.
(If so the fire analogy does not work, the fire creates the smoke. It doesn't have a choice in doing so but it certainly creates it).
2) We are eternal.
3) We are separate from this god entity.
Right/wrong?
The fire represents god right? And the smoke represents humans right? What your analogy says therefore is that god has no choice with regards to our existence. He is ultimately impotent.
Interesting.
whatever it may be, the fact that I mention it a dozen times and you fail to include it in your "repeating" shows you also have a latent talent for obscuring things ....
depends what you mean by created - would you be comfortable talking about the creation of something that is eternal?
(hence my suggestion of "contingent")
yes
yes, but we have no scope for independence - just like smoke is separate from fire, but has no scope of existing without fire
as analogy, yes
as analogy, yes
it's not clear why manifesting eternal separated parts and parcels of consciousness (ie living entities) makes god less potent than a god that doesn't.
It's better for someone else to be proud of you.Job 1:8-12 (King James Version)
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
God is bragging about his favorite servant Job, isn't pride a sin? :scratchin:
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Satan baits God to tempt him and see if he can get permission to mess with Job. Whatever happened to "Tempt not the lord thy God"? Oh that's right it's Satan we're talking about here! One gets the idea that this tactic has worked for Satan in the past, boy that God is a real sucker! :mufc:
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
God fails this test of temptation and says (I'm paraphrasing here), "Alright it's a bet! But don't kill him, if you kill him he can't live to still prove you wrong by not turning on me!" And thus the tragedy begins. Yet God who is omniscient already knew Job would not turn against God so why bother persecuting Job? To prove to Satan what God already knows, that's why. Confirmation of God's pride AND insecurity!
So here we learn that not only is God full of pride, but his insecurity makes him easily manipulated by his enemies. Satan also seems intellectually superior to God in this text, how can that be?
It's not a sin if God is proud, it's not a sin if you are proud of something you do either. But if it develops into a lifestyle of pride, then it may be a sin, but it is for God to judge.
You are happy before you have crossed the river.
GeniusSage
Registered Senior Member
The Christian God is guilty of more than just pride. I'd rather worship Hitler.