premarital sex a sin?

What is marriage?
Is it a monopoly by an institution like a church to control breeding? What if there were no church? If you and your mate were all alone, can you marry yourselves?
 
weed_eater_guy said:
I'm a christian, love god with all my heart, and regard Jesus as the ultimate role model. But I also tend to be a realist, and try to figure out why things are the way they are. Most sins make sence if the rational of why they are in fact sins, with exception to a few. One which I was brought to think about more closely recently is premarital sex. What makes it sinful? Is it the possibility that you may accidnetally make a kid and screw that kid's life? If so, then what if you do it responsibly? It's human contact, not unlike hugs or holding hands. Does that make hugging and holding hands a sin too? How about massaging someone? Would that reel the line in too far? Where is the line? And why is the line justified?
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As believers we try not to get caught up in the pleasures of THIS WORLD which lead men often into idolatry. Since SEX is the ultimate physical ectasy, it must be avoided and fled from if it is not justified by God (ie outside marriage). That is fornication, illicit sex, which scripture condemns. True SEX should mean giving your entire being selflessly to someone else, as an expression of the commitment of your entire life to that person. Fornication is never innocent, and whoever fornicates LIES to the other person, which is not an act of LOVE but of hate! Since humans are weak they are drawn by the allure of ectasy and commit this lie, and so, although it causes spiritual death, God will forgive the sinner and bring him back to spiritual life. Every effort should be made to avoid this transgression when dating, if you make a mistake that is human, however if you cannot cease from this impious sin while dating a particular would-be-spouse, you must break off with that person and honour God by ceasing from sin, or at least marry immediately which could also be dangerous.

To separate sex from the act of procreation for which it wasintended is also a distortion and sinful, therefore to use condoms or other prophylactics is wrong, as is the sale of such devices, many of which are abortafactive, and many who do so (if they do so knowing that as such it has been condemned by established spiritual authority, such as certain catholics) offend God greatly and risk Hell through excommunication.
And if anyone says it's enjoying the flesh again isn't cutting it, because those are the same people who accuse me of being very "worldly". I can't help it if this world and it's people are beautiful! I mean, damnit, God built the thing! Besides, we enjoy the flesh anyway. Whenever we run for the feel of running, we're enjoying our own bodies. Whenever we work out to better our physical capabilities, or even study for mental ones, we're catering to our flesh-based appetites. I just don't get it... Fellow christians, and anyone else, help me out here.
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God created all pleasures, and in themselves they are all good. However, if you are USING someone else to aquire pleasure for yourself this is wrong, and everyone knows this, for you put them beneath human dignity and treatthem as a mere animal.

God forbids no one from marrying.

To blame God for sin is upside down.
 
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So as long as you are giving your life to someone, and not just your penis, it's ok. (and God hates condoms (and fags))
 
lawdog said:
To blame God for sin is upside down.
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how so, if your devout god fearing bible puncher, you must blame the one who, put sin there, but no you blame adam, cause you dont want to anger your god he may smite you.
what a load of utter dogs testicals you people believe in.
 
In the days of the OT, sex usually resulted in pregnancy, and casual sex put a great burden on mothers to raise the kids (if they survived childbirth), or led to them killing the babies. Of course this is a problem, but circumstances have changed. I think the bible should be updated to account for the invention of birth control.
 
Fornication is never innocent, and whoever fornicates LIES to the other person, which is not an act of LOVE but of hate!
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That's exactly how I feel Rawdog! Except I get a real kick out of knowing I'm abusing the woman!
 
Nisus said:
The correct terminology for pre-marital sex, as described in the bible, is Fornication! Yes it's a sin. Not a sin because it's not good to have sex, because of course it was created for good...to bring life...but it's just not good to "abuse" if you will, the powers of pro-creation.
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Ah, I see that you are young, and have absolutely no experience in what you are talking about. :p
 
Lawdog said:
God forbids no one from marrying.

To blame God for sin is upside down.
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Does God forbid someone from remarrying though, if the former spouse is still alive?

Pre-marital sex is hate, but marital sex is love to you? If so, interesting division you got there, Lawdog. :)

Also, if separating the act of sex from intending procreation is sin in your view, then why does the Catholic church allow the "calendar" method of birth control?

And, concerning the aborifactive comment, doesn't "science" say that a certain percentage of fertilized eggs fail to attach to the uterine wall, regardless of the use of the "pill"? Was that part of God's wisdom to allow those deaths of what some Christians consider full human beings?
 
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anonymous2 said:
Does God forbid someone from remarrying though, if the former spouse is still alive?
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Yes Jesus does very expressly forbid that, if fact, it appears that he condemns divorce mostly for the sake of preventing remarriage.
anonymous2 said:
Pre-marital sex is hate, but marital sex is love to you? If so, interesting division you got there, Lawdog. :)
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Its not just me, but a doctrine all christians are obliged to adhere too.
anonymous2 said:
Also, if separating the act of sex from intending procreation is sin in your view, then why does the Catholic church allow the "calendar" method of birth control?
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This method is allowed as long as its intended goal is not to prevent new life, not to stop God's action, for example, it might be used by those who wish to have period of abstinence for the sake of increased focus on prayer.
anonymous2 said:
And, concerning the aborifactive comment, doesn't "science" say that a certain percentage of fertilized eggs fail to attach to the uterine wall, regardless of the use of the "pill"? Was that part of God's wisdom to allow those deaths of what some Christians consider full human beings?
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Just as in, say still births or miscarriages, one cannot fully understand God's purpose, or know for certain that such a thing is God's purpose. There has always been debate amongtheologians as to when "ensoulment occurs", but it is alway best to err on the side of life.
 
Lawdog said:
Yes Jesus does very expressly forbid that, if fact, it appears that he condemns divorce mostly for the sake of preventing remarriage.
Its not just me, but a doctrine all christians are obliged to adhere too.
This method is allowed as long as its intended goal is not to prevent new life, not to stop God's action, for example, it might be used by those who wish to have period of abstinence for the sake of increased focus on prayer.

Just as in, say still births or miscarriages, one cannot fully understand God's purpose, or know for certain that such a thing is God's purpose. There has always been debate amongtheologians as to when "ensoulment occurs", but it is alway best to err on the side of life.
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Ok, but what if a divorce is given, through no fault of one spouse, do you think that one shouldn't "blame God for sin" if that very spouse decides to marry again? One should be forced to be celibate for, in theory, 50+ years, or else one is sinning? In your view?

All Christians are obliged to think of pre-marital sex as hate and marital sex as love?

Your explanation of the "calendar method" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would anyone use it at all, unless for the very purpose of preventing a pregnancy? Increased abstinence to focus on prayer? Then why would someone use the "calendar method", instead of picking any time for abstinence? Why would it just so happen to coincide with days it is most likely for a woman to become pregnant?
 
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anonymous2 said:
Ok, but what if a divorce is given, through no fault of one spouse, do you think that one shouldn't "blame God for sin" if that very spouse decides to marry again? One should be forced to be celibate for, in theory, 50+ years, or else one is sinning? In your view?
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The spouse that left, that pursued the divorce, is doing the wrong thing if it was a catholic marriage and he/she had a full understanding of marriage. Even so, my personal opinion is that non catholic christians and even pagans by nature marry for life, and that they should be held to this. Nevertheless, this is upheld for catholics and some christians, according to the vows and maturity of each individual case. It is not good that people have their spouses leave them, but they must try to fullfill their vow, for the sake of their own soul, with whatever grace God gives them, even if their aberrant spouse totally forgets them. this is for certain a hard teaching, and of course, would require much consideration. The Church is not as strict as it once was with annulments, for times have changed, and the Church must be just.
anonymous2 said:
All Christians are obliged to think of pre-marital sex as hate and marital sex as love?
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in a sense yes, though one could say that circumstances could ameliorate the seriousness of the sin, such as drunkeness, or immaturity. Also, practical understanding of marriage suggests that sex is not always ideal or what one would hope as an expession of love, but God works even in this as a spiritual teacher.
Your explanation of the "calendar method" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would anyone use it at all, unless for the very purpose of preventing a pregnancy? Increased absitinence to focus on prayer? Then why would someone use the "calendar method", instead of picking any time for abstinence? Why would it just so happen to coincide with the days it is most likely for a woman to become pregnant?
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Abstnence is said to help focus on prayer for married couples, although I myself am not married, so here this is for discernment. I cannot answer fully what problems there are in why the Church has chosen this stance, and certainly, not all of the Church's teachings do I myself find easy or likeable, but I try to follow them as best I can, realizing that I am human and will screw up at times. The most difficult thing I have ever done is practice non-marital chastity. If one finds this impossible, one is free to marry.
 
You do realise that just because the pope forbids the use of condoms doesnt mean that the priests and the sex ed teachers in catholic schools dissagree with there use dont you?

i know this for a FACT because my mother IS a teacher in the catholic system and most catholics (even the priests) have been hoping that the church will change its offical position on contreception, not to help australia or the US, to help africa where they take the offical word to seriously
 
weed_eater_guy said:
I'm a christian, love god with all my heart, and regard Jesus as the ultimate role model. But I also tend to be a realist, and try to figure out why things are the way they are. Most sins make sence if the rational of why they are in fact sins, with exception to a few. One which I was brought to think about more closely recently is premarital sex. What makes it sinful? Is it the possibility that you may accidnetally make a kid and screw that kid's life? If so, then what if you do it responsibly? It's human contact, not unlike hugs or holding hands. Does that make hugging and holding hands a sin too? How about massaging someone? Would that reel the line in too far? Where is the line? And why is the line justified?

And if anyone says it's enjoying the flesh again isn't cutting it, because those are the same people who accuse me of being very "worldly". I can't help it if this world and it's people are beautiful! I mean, damnit, God built the thing! Besides, we enjoy the flesh anyway. Whenever we run for the feel of running, we're enjoying our own bodies. Whenever we work out to better our physical capabilities, or even study for mental ones, we're catering to our flesh-based appetites. I just don't get it... Fellow christians, and anyone else, help me out here.
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It is a sin that can be forgiven - I mean I have indulged in sexual activities, but I dont crave or yearn for sex now. I have asked for forgiveness and it has been granted to me. Now I shall remain a 'CLEAN until I get married to my Love.

Thank You.
 
Is abstaining from sex considered a waste of good sperm or eggs? Why no sin for celibacy? Probably because its no fun and it feels good which is taboo in religious circles.
 
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