Prayer in Schools
- Thread starter Thoreau
- Start date
Honestly, the best solution lies in a compromise. I think prayer should be allowed in schools as long as they are student-initiated and student-led. No one should have the right to tell a student he cannot pray before a meal just because it's school (or before a test 
). However, schools should not outright encourage, sponsor, or initiate prayer, such as over the intercom or at an assembly. That would be a violation of the separation of church and state. Things like "See you at the Pole" or prayer during school hours by individual students or groups of students is fine.
Teacher involvement is a bit touchier. Teachers should probably refrain from participating with students because they are employees of the government. As much as I dislike restricting teachers like that, it's just asking for lawsuits and someone's offense. Teachers have to understand their job limits that kind of personal expression at work, but if a teacher led a Bible study at their home after classes were over, that seems all right with me.
As a side note, I think the BS of cutting off a student's microphone at graduation because they mention God or pray at the beginning of their speech is a blatant violation of free speech. It happens a lot where I'm from, so I read in the news (some school does it every year).
). However, schools should not outright encourage, sponsor, or initiate prayer, such as over the intercom or at an assembly. That would be a violation of the separation of church and state. Things like "See you at the Pole" or prayer during school hours by individual students or groups of students is fine.Teacher involvement is a bit touchier. Teachers should probably refrain from participating with students because they are employees of the government. As much as I dislike restricting teachers like that, it's just asking for lawsuits and someone's offense. Teachers have to understand their job limits that kind of personal expression at work, but if a teacher led a Bible study at their home after classes were over, that seems all right with me.
As a side note, I think the BS of cutting off a student's microphone at graduation because they mention God or pray at the beginning of their speech is a blatant violation of free speech. It happens a lot where I'm from, so I read in the news (some school does it every year).
There is no ban on prayer in school nor should there be. Prayer is completely legal in any public school in the United States.
It just cannot be teacher/faculty led or sponsored, nor should it.
It just cannot be teacher/faculty led or sponsored, nor should it.
Absolutely not. If the teacher wants to be a preacher there are different vocations or venues that are accepting. If, however, that teacher wants to represent a school funded by tax dollars which may or may not include members of that teacher's cult, then that teacher should keep his or her cult practices to his or her self.
Why would I want that teacher muttering an Islamic prayer to my daughter even on the teacher's free time and not in class? I know of many parents that would be absolutely livid if a Wiccan teacher took the time to teach a pagan prayer or chant to their 3rd graders during a free period. I can't think of a single parent that would tolerate the team huddling right after prostrating themselves toward Mecca, even if the game wasn't an official one and not the actual football team -just a bunch of students that want to get on coach Mubas' good side.
No. Prayer and religious superstition has no place being offered as an a priori fact of truth in school. Doing so ultimately excludes someone. Let children get their religious indoctrinations from their parents should their parents so choose to abuse their children in that manner.
Why would I want that teacher muttering an Islamic prayer to my daughter even on the teacher's free time and not in class? I know of many parents that would be absolutely livid if a Wiccan teacher took the time to teach a pagan prayer or chant to their 3rd graders during a free period. I can't think of a single parent that would tolerate the team huddling right after prostrating themselves toward Mecca, even if the game wasn't an official one and not the actual football team -just a bunch of students that want to get on coach Mubas' good side.
No. Prayer and religious superstition has no place being offered as an a priori fact of truth in school. Doing so ultimately excludes someone. Let children get their religious indoctrinations from their parents should their parents so choose to abuse their children in that manner.
That's a bit much. Even looking at your example, if the parents don't want their children to hang out with their evil Wiccan teacher, they should tell them not to. If they've taught the children to respect their wishes, then everything works out fine. If not, what's wrong with children exploring their curiosity as long as the parents do a good job of teaching the proper faith at home? Just because the parents practice intolerance doesn't mean the school should. Unless of course, the community as a whole wants to get rid of (all) prayer in schools. That's a different issue.
And I don't buy the exclusion argument. If a student wants to join a teacher in prayer, that's absolutely his/her choice. If he wants to do it dishonestly to just suck up, that's still his/her choice. If another student wants to do it just to join their friend and not because they're really interested, that's still his/her choice. It would be completely voluntary.
And I don't buy the exclusion argument. If a student wants to join a teacher in prayer, that's absolutely his/her choice. If he wants to do it dishonestly to just suck up, that's still his/her choice. If another student wants to do it just to join their friend and not because they're really interested, that's still his/her choice. It would be completely voluntary.
There is absolutely no reason to provide cult practices in a place of academia. Moreover, if they're provided an exclusion surely develops since kids will feel pressured to participate in order to appeal to popularity or authority.
Prayers are welcome in school already. They just have to be spontaneous among students and not endorsed or led by school authorities.
Nor did I say any of the cult members above were "evil." I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth (so to speak).
Prayers are welcome in school already. They just have to be spontaneous among students and not endorsed or led by school authorities.
Nor did I say any of the cult members above were "evil." I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth (so to speak).
Prayer has no logical link with advancement or development in either ethics or intelligence. It therefore should be granted at best a neutral face by a school administration...anything more is a breach of professional standards.
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
Agree'd
There should be no prayer in state funded schools, during lesson time, or led by any employee of the school system.
If Prayer were to be allowed, all faiths would have to be represented equally, alongside alternative to faith and religion, such as atheism, for balance. I don't think there is enough time on the curriculum, so it should all be avoided, and schools should just teach facts.
If Prayer were to be allowed, all faiths would have to be represented equally, alongside alternative to faith and religion, such as atheism, for balance. I don't think there is enough time on the curriculum, so it should all be avoided, and schools should just teach facts.
i personally think that schools are for learning, and education, the spiritual nuturing of the children should be left to the perants.
my son was recently offered a place at a local catholic school and i turned it down, because its my job to teach my children about god, and the bible.
no, prayer was allowed in school during the days of segregation and seperate bathrooms/drinking fountains. Was that better?
If you want prayer in school, send your kid to private school. If god wants it, I'm sure he'll help you get the money for it.
Mmm, I guess I'm in the minority on this particular issue. I just think that if it's done during the student's free time and the teacher's free time, and purely voluntary, there shouldn't be a problem. But apparently there is. :shrug:
SW: I was just having fun with the "evil wiccans" comment, wasn't an intentional attempt to change your argument.
SW: I was just having fun with the "evil wiccans" comment, wasn't an intentional attempt to change your argument.
I have no problem with a kid saying a prayer before a test or saying grace over his lunch.
Its that prayer at the beginning of the day or that 'moment of silence' that they try and sneak in.
The school led prayer burns my ass. They do one prayer at my kids schools, and we have suddenly become a devil worshiping family who wants a prayer as well.
Sandy said:
It started before that, Sandy. In 1937, Congress essentially banned marijuana with a tax stamp. Four years later, we were at war. During that war, the government had to ask American farmers to grow marijuana. But the stuff stayed illegal after the war, and we've never recovered.
Besides, the removal of prayer from public schools has nothing to do with the corruption of Christianity in the U.S. That's the fault of the Christians.
In consideration of the general topic, you can't actually remove prayer from public schools. It is, literally, impossible. What you can do is prevent tyrants from forcing children to pray, and that, more than anything, is what has Christians annoyed about prayer and public school.
Prayer is fine in private religious schools, ie Jewish or Christian, but not necessarily for public. My kids go to a school with children of Christian, Muslim, Hindu and other assorted faiths so I don't think that forcing all the kids to recite a Christian prayer would be appropriate.
I have no problem with a kid saying a prayer before a test or saying grace over his lunch.
Its that prayer at the beginning of the day or that 'moment of silence' that they try and sneak in.
I'm in total agreement here. School led prayer is an absolute no.