Pope Benedict: Other Christians Not True Churches

[SnakeLord]

Divine?

We need to clarify some issues then. You see, some would espouse that jesus is god. Indeed Sandy is one of those people - but last time I went through this she ignored me.

Is jesus god?

Firstly we need to define what 'god' is. Most would state that god is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being.

Look at the following jesus quote:

"Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.."

In this quote jesus openly states that he is not and cannot be god if we assume god is omniscient.

The following quote:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honour because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

What we can gather here is that 1) jesus was 'made', 2) was made lower than the angels, (which are not gods). and was only given honour and glory because he got whacked.

I could continue along these lines for days. We can explore omnipotence and omnipresence and many other angles that all show beyond any reasonable doubt that jesus could not have been god.

From a biblical perspective he is in fact of no more importance than melchizedek. So Sandy, will it now be a quadrinity?

 

[Ganymede]

*************
M*W: The word "trinity" is not found anywhere in the bible. The divinity of Jesus came about when the trinity concept became an issue for the early church fathers to discuss in the late 300s CE, many decades following the Council of Nicaea. Jesus was not considered as divine in his own time (hypothetically assuming that he existed).

Let's face it. If Jesus was god, he would have been god eternally, and not just established around 400 CE.

Fiction. All fiction.

Let's face it. If Jesus was god, he would have been god eternally, and not just established around 400 CE.

I approve the above statement.

 

[sandy]

The path to God is simple. You just believe and accept. Or not. You get to choose if you want to incinerate. Or not.

 

[Ganymede]

The path to God is simple. You just believe and accept. Or not. You get to choose if you want to incinerate. Or not.

A GOD who tortures.. Interesting.

 

[Pandaemoni]

-I have never found the words 'pope' or 'Catholic' in the Bible.

The Rapture isn't spelled out clearly either, and your posts have suggested that you believe in that.

-I'm very disturbed by such exclusionary rhetoric.

Haven't you said that only "born again" Christians are saved, and everyone else is doomed to Hell? (That would seem to exclude Catholics, since I've never heard of a "born again Catholic.") Why isn't that exclusionary?

 

[Adstar]

I am never bothered by exclusionary rhetoric.

To be excluded from something that falls short of the will of Jesus is a compliment.

So when they say "you don't belong" Say thank God i belong to You and not them.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Orleander]

We need to clarify some issues then. You see, some would espouse that jesus is god. Indeed Sandy is one of those people - but last time I went through this she ignored me...

I was raised that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one. And a clover leaf was always used as an example.
Each of the 3 leaves are separate, but part of the same thing.

 

[SnakeLord]

I was raised that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one. And a clover leaf was always used as an example.
Each of the 3 leaves are separate, but part of the same thing.

Yeah, many are - but it's dumb, especially given most of Hebrews, jesus statements against him being god, and his failing in the attributes these same people say god has without doubt, (omniscience etc).

 

[sandy]

A GOD who tortures.. Interesting.

No. HE doesn't torture. YOU get a choice. Spend eternity in Heaven with your Heavenly Father or frying in Hell with your demonic father.

It really is that simple. Who is your spiritual Father? God or satan? There is no in-between. You're either a child of God or a child of the devil. You get to choose.

 

[Enterprise-D]

No. HE doesn't torture. YOU get a choice. Spend eternity in Heaven with your Heavenly Father or frying in Hell with your demonic father.

In the law, there are such things as "accessory to murder", "conspiracy to defraud" and other such felonies. In such cases, a person accused need not have actually done the crime, he simply had to know about it and be in a position to either stop it or alert a higher authority to the goings on; but yet do nothing to impede or even helps exacerbate the situation.

Nuff said?

 

[nova900]

No. HE doesn't torture. YOU get a choice. Spend eternity in Heaven with your Heavenly Father or frying in Hell with your demonic father.

The concept of a "devil" is an old concept that predates Christianity.
The Ancient Egyptians concept of the the devil was Set,but it was understood by the Egyptians that he represented all the ills of the human ego that affect peoples spiritual growth.
For instance, many times Set was depiced as a serpent(sound familiar?) that was always trying to "tip" the boat that Ra sailed down the river of creation.

For an NDE perspective on the "demonic father" ...

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research23.html

 

[sandy]

satan's goal is to have you believe there is no devil. Then you can blame God for all your problems.

 

[nova900]

satan's goal is to have you believe there is no devil. Then you can blame God for all your problems.

Sorry Sandy, that is a man created concept created by unscrupulous men for the purpose of control...and no ,it's not about blaming God but rather taking responsibility for you own actions.
Peace

 

[Orleander]

satan's goal is to have you believe there is no devil. Then you can blame God for all your problems.

Wouldn't Satan want you to believe in him so you can do his work and worship him?
Can a person blame God for some of their problems?

 

[geeser]

who in your opinion is the supreme being sandy, god or satan, is satan just a angel gone bad, then how come this all powerful being of yours god cant beat him is it because god likes him, or is it because he's doing what god wants, and taking all the flack for it.

 

[sandy]

The devil is not man-created. He's in the Bible. God defeated satan 2000 years ago when Jesus went to the cross.:bravo:

satan still tries to go after God's kids, but most of us are making an effort to ignore him. He already has his kids (non-believers) doing his work. It's God's kids he's after.

We can't blame God or the devil for all our problems. It's US making the decisions.

The "Supreme Being" is God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)

satan is just a defeated, punk loser.

 

[Quigly]

Divine?

We need to clarify some issues then. You see, some would espouse that jesus is god. Indeed Sandy is one of those people - but last time I went through this she ignored me.

Is jesus god?

Firstly we need to define what 'god' is. Most would state that god is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being.

Look at the following jesus quote:

"Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.."

In this quote jesus openly states that he is not and cannot be god if we assume god is omniscient.

The following quote:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honour because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

What we can gather here is that 1) jesus was 'made', 2) was made lower than the angels, (which are not gods). and was only given honour and glory because he got whacked.

I could continue along these lines for days. We can explore omnipotence and omnipresence and many other angles that all show beyond any reasonable doubt that jesus could not have been god.

From a biblical perspective he is in fact of no more importance than melchizedek. So Sandy, will it now be a quadrinity?

Philippians 2:5-8

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

John 1 also speaks of Jesus being part of the triune being. Read John 1:1-14

It is obviously an understudied conclusion to say that Jesus was not God and try to use scripture to back your conclusion, because scripture speaks otherwise

 

[Enterprise-D]

The devil is not man-created. He's in the Bible. God defeated satan 2000 years ago when Jesus went to the cross.:bravo:

satan still tries to go after God's kids, but most of us are making an effort to ignore him. He already has his kids (non-believers) doing his work. It's God's kids he's after.

We can't blame God or the devil for all our problems. It's US making the decisions.

The "Supreme Being" is God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)

satan is just a defeated, punk loser.

This brings to mind the old saying..."history is written by the victors". Then again, there'd had to have been a real battle with real opponents.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

The devil is not man-created. He's in the Bible. God defeated satan 2000 years ago when Jesus went to the cross.

*************
M*W: And who took pen in hand to write the bible? Men.

Who created the idea of satan? Men.

Who created the idea of god? Men.

satan still tries to go after God's kids, but most of us are making an effort to ignore him. He already has his kids (non-believers) doing his work. It's God's kids he's after.

*************
M*W: Satan goes after no one. Satan is a metaphor for evil which represents darkness. Satan is not real! Satan never existed, and neither did god.

We can't blame God or the devil for all our problems. It's US making the decisions.

************
M*W: So why do you need a god?

The "Supreme Being" is God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)

*************
M*W: There is no "supreme being," unless of course you're talking about Diana Ross.

satan is just a defeated, punk loser.

*************
M*W: Every myth has it's hero and it's advesary.

 

[sandy]

*************
M*W: And who took pen in hand to write the bible? Men.
Who created the idea of satan? Men.
Who created the idea of god? Men.
*************
M*W: Satan goes after no one. Satan is a metaphor for evil which represents darkness. Satan is not real! Satan never existed, and neither did god.
************
M*W: So why do you need a god?
*************
M*W: There is no "supreme being," unless of course you're talking about Diana Ross.
*************
M*W: Every myth has it's hero and it's advesary.

I disagree. God is the great I Am. He always was and always will be. satan was one of his angels until he fell from grace. He's been tempting man ever since Adam and Eve.

I need God because he is my spiritual Father. I need his wisdom, guidance, grace, love, and affection.:worship:

Maybe your life is perfect without Him. Mine is almost perfect because of Him.