Planet X Declaration
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Banshee
Yes, yes and yes.
I hope you have a bit of time to read this as I am about to summarise a 5/6 year tale. One of the main forums for discussing Astronomy on the Net is news://sci.astro, a usenet group that goes back to the founding of the Net. That group has always attracted it's fair share of nuts, loons and kooks. Some of the most celebrated usenet kooks have graced it's shores. Plus some of it's most celebrated posters have become primary information sources on the Net. For example, <a href="http://www.badastronomy.com">Phil Plait, the Bad Astronomer</a> and <a href="http://www.crank.net">Eric Max Francis</a> to name two off the top of my head. John Baez and Ned Wright come to mind as well. Sci.astro has a web gateway on<a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=sci.astro">on groups.google.com</a> with a complete 20 year archive.
Back in about 1996 a new kook appeared. She was <a href="http://www.zetatalk.com">Nancy Leider</a> who claimed to be in telepathic communication with the Zeta Reticulans. Nancy claims that the Zeta's claim there is a Planet-X in the Solar System. This Planet-X is based on Sitchin's and Velikovsky's 'work' but adds in some new age mysticism about density changes, pole shifts and other dreck.
Nancy spammed sci.astro with hundreds of messages a week for long enough. When Comet Hale-Bopp arrived she claimed it was not a comet but a ruse by NASA to deter observations of Planet-X. After the heaven's gate suicides occurred nancy went very, vrey quite until last year. Now she is claiming her Planet-X is arriving in May 2003 and will reign death and destruction onto us all. Read her web site in depth to see what I mean.
Nancy also set up a not-for-profit called <a href="http://www.zetatalk.com/thub.htm">Troubled Times</a>. She runs a Yahoo club complete with weekly IRC chats to talk to the faithful. Over the years Nancy has apparently gained some followers who help run Troubled Times and act as senior management for her. Search the sci.astro archive for JosX, amongst others. Jos has since recanted after a spat with Nancy.
Nancy has also recently appeared on the Art Bell Coast-to-Coast show in the US and since then many, many people seem to be asking about this matter. Nancy is sufficiently convincing that people appear to be listening to her.
But this get's complicated. One of her followers was a guy called <a href="http://www.planetxvideo.com/">Mark Hazlewood</a>. Mark wrote a book, got it published and appeared on Art Bell last year, before Nancy got the publicity. This led to Nancy having a hissy fit and publishing a public denouncement of Mark Hazlewood on her web site and on Usenet.
So, the main proponent of this idea is Nancy Leider on http://www.zetatalk.com and Mark Hazlewood more recently.
Sitchin recently posted a public denial that Planet-X is due next year. Even Richard Hoagland denounces this. A professional Astronomer has put together a superb debunking of the claims on a web site. Wishing to remain anonymous he calls himself I M Open Minded,
http://www.geocities.com/openmindxx. A detailed debunking can also be read on sci.astro if you read the archives searching for 'Nancy Leider' planet-x'.
As you can tell I have following this for some years. Everytime I hear "planet X" I now think of Zetatalk and not Sitchin.
Yes, yes and yes.
I hope you have a bit of time to read this as I am about to summarise a 5/6 year tale. One of the main forums for discussing Astronomy on the Net is news://sci.astro, a usenet group that goes back to the founding of the Net. That group has always attracted it's fair share of nuts, loons and kooks. Some of the most celebrated usenet kooks have graced it's shores. Plus some of it's most celebrated posters have become primary information sources on the Net. For example, <a href="http://www.badastronomy.com">Phil Plait, the Bad Astronomer</a> and <a href="http://www.crank.net">Eric Max Francis</a> to name two off the top of my head. John Baez and Ned Wright come to mind as well. Sci.astro has a web gateway on<a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=sci.astro">on groups.google.com</a> with a complete 20 year archive.
Back in about 1996 a new kook appeared. She was <a href="http://www.zetatalk.com">Nancy Leider</a> who claimed to be in telepathic communication with the Zeta Reticulans. Nancy claims that the Zeta's claim there is a Planet-X in the Solar System. This Planet-X is based on Sitchin's and Velikovsky's 'work' but adds in some new age mysticism about density changes, pole shifts and other dreck.
Nancy spammed sci.astro with hundreds of messages a week for long enough. When Comet Hale-Bopp arrived she claimed it was not a comet but a ruse by NASA to deter observations of Planet-X. After the heaven's gate suicides occurred nancy went very, vrey quite until last year. Now she is claiming her Planet-X is arriving in May 2003 and will reign death and destruction onto us all. Read her web site in depth to see what I mean.
Nancy also set up a not-for-profit called <a href="http://www.zetatalk.com/thub.htm">Troubled Times</a>. She runs a Yahoo club complete with weekly IRC chats to talk to the faithful. Over the years Nancy has apparently gained some followers who help run Troubled Times and act as senior management for her. Search the sci.astro archive for JosX, amongst others. Jos has since recanted after a spat with Nancy.
Nancy has also recently appeared on the Art Bell Coast-to-Coast show in the US and since then many, many people seem to be asking about this matter. Nancy is sufficiently convincing that people appear to be listening to her.
But this get's complicated. One of her followers was a guy called <a href="http://www.planetxvideo.com/">Mark Hazlewood</a>. Mark wrote a book, got it published and appeared on Art Bell last year, before Nancy got the publicity. This led to Nancy having a hissy fit and publishing a public denouncement of Mark Hazlewood on her web site and on Usenet.
So, the main proponent of this idea is Nancy Leider on http://www.zetatalk.com and Mark Hazlewood more recently.
Sitchin recently posted a public denial that Planet-X is due next year. Even Richard Hoagland denounces this. A professional Astronomer has put together a superb debunking of the claims on a web site. Wishing to remain anonymous he calls himself I M Open Minded,
http://www.geocities.com/openmindxx. A detailed debunking can also be read on sci.astro if you read the archives searching for 'Nancy Leider' planet-x'.
As you can tell I have following this for some years. Everytime I hear "planet X" I now think of Zetatalk and not Sitchin.
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To add to this a bit. Nancy became so bad on sci.astro that a bunch of astronomers got together in order to make nancy look through a telescope and see hale-Bopp for herself. Details on http://www.laughton.com/paul/rfo/nancy/nancy.html
This apparently scared nancy so much she moved house to Wisconsin.
This apparently scared nancy so much she moved house to Wisconsin.
Classical Nancy:
Nancy explains how the Zetas convinced her to quit her job and move to Wisconsin :
..."But I'll tell you about a moaning/groaning begging-for-a-sign time when I was first deciding to make the moves I've done these past couple years. I'm getting up there, 60, not strong, not financially anything but on the edge, and my family (except for one person) is not supportive of what I do. So I wanted a SOLID SIGN from the Zetas before I burned bridges and moved to Wisco and all. "Give me a sign!!!""
"So, I had a visitation from Pumpkin heads (the big guys, see Zeta Types in Worlds) and they told me that when I went into my office I'd find the MUFON mags turned face down, not up as usual, and that would be my sign. So I went in, all excited, and they were face up. Got hysterical. Another visitation, and they said "this is why we don't give signs on demand! If they go wrong, or are perceived wrong, hysterics, etc." So I understood, not on demand. A week later I'm in a movie house, alone, trying to relax, and get the sense that a Zeta came in and sat beside me, and I'd find a candy wrapper in my pocket or some such. I was eating Star Bursts, glued shut cardboard box, welded plastic wrapper around individually wrapped pieces. You have to break your fingernails to get the candy, practially. So I'm eating along and get to the last piece. It's not individually wrapped in wax paper. Now, EVERY Star Burst is so wrapped, by machine, I have no doubt. So, I figured that was my sign, when I wasn't expecting it."
Nancy explains how the Zetas convinced her to quit her job and move to Wisconsin :
..."But I'll tell you about a moaning/groaning begging-for-a-sign time when I was first deciding to make the moves I've done these past couple years. I'm getting up there, 60, not strong, not financially anything but on the edge, and my family (except for one person) is not supportive of what I do. So I wanted a SOLID SIGN from the Zetas before I burned bridges and moved to Wisco and all. "Give me a sign!!!""
"So, I had a visitation from Pumpkin heads (the big guys, see Zeta Types in Worlds) and they told me that when I went into my office I'd find the MUFON mags turned face down, not up as usual, and that would be my sign. So I went in, all excited, and they were face up. Got hysterical. Another visitation, and they said "this is why we don't give signs on demand! If they go wrong, or are perceived wrong, hysterics, etc." So I understood, not on demand. A week later I'm in a movie house, alone, trying to relax, and get the sense that a Zeta came in and sat beside me, and I'd find a candy wrapper in my pocket or some such. I was eating Star Bursts, glued shut cardboard box, welded plastic wrapper around individually wrapped pieces. You have to break your fingernails to get the candy, practially. So I'm eating along and get to the last piece. It's not individually wrapped in wax paper. Now, EVERY Star Burst is so wrapped, by machine, I have no doubt. So, I figured that was my sign, when I wasn't expecting it."
Oh my goodness, this sounds as the typical hysterics who really want to believe in the Doomsday scenario and hold on to everything they are hearing.
It is so easy to confuse yourself and "see" signs of extraterrestrial inteference as much as you like. This Nancy seems to delude herself pretty good. My, if you want, there's a sign everwhere.
What the hell is it with these Doomsday scenario's anyway? People seem to love these things.
I'm getting a little bit much fed up with all these people. There are even people who are building domes and that kind of shit to protect themselves from the coming Planet X/Nibiru.
Well, if it shows up and hits Earth, there is no cover. I still have to see it for myself.
People of Sciforums, I'd love to see your true opinion about the coming of Planet X/Nibiru. Show yourselfs please and explain exactly what you expect. I want to know who sincerely thinks this is going to happen as described in Thed's links.
(thanx Thed, it confirms my opinion there is a lot of BS floating on the internet.)
:bugeye:
It is so easy to confuse yourself and "see" signs of extraterrestrial inteference as much as you like. This Nancy seems to delude herself pretty good. My, if you want, there's a sign everwhere.
What the hell is it with these Doomsday scenario's anyway? People seem to love these things.
I'm getting a little bit much fed up with all these people. There are even people who are building domes and that kind of shit to protect themselves from the coming Planet X/Nibiru.
Well, if it shows up and hits Earth, there is no cover. I still have to see it for myself.
People of Sciforums, I'd love to see your true opinion about the coming of Planet X/Nibiru. Show yourselfs please and explain exactly what you expect. I want to know who sincerely thinks this is going to happen as described in Thed's links.
(thanx Thed, it confirms my opinion there is a lot of BS floating on the internet.)
:bugeye:
Thanks, there is indeed a lot of flotsam and jetsam on the Net and this very much comes under flotsam.
To try and bring a balanced view I'd like to present the scientific evidence for Planet-X.
Back in 1983 the IRAS probe discovered an infra-red image that did not match a known optical source. This led NASA to make a press release that was published in the Washington Post. The release is widely distributed on the Web and can be read <a href="http://www.planet-x.150m.com/washpost.html"> here</a>. That article seems to form the basis on the modern version of what Planet-X is and is oft cited as proof of it's existence. But, in the 20 years since then the data has been properly analysed and any anomalies accounted for. The IRAS team got so fed up with fielding questions on the article that they put up <a href="http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/tchester/iras/no_tenth_planet_yet.html">this page debunking the evidece</a>. In short, IRAS did not see a Solar System body and any one claiming NASA quoshed the evidence are deluding themselves, several papers where writen on these initial anomalies.
There is a chap called <a href="http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~jjm9638/matese.html">John J. Matese</a> who is looking at comet orbits and has proposed that a previously unknown large object may exist in the Oort cloud. <a href="http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0205/0205150.pdf">But this recent paper</a> argues that Dr. Matese is seeing a bias based on too small a sample and selection criteria. This is all good science with opposing views being aired and the data being analysed in depth. If there is something out there, it will be found.
One of the other major 'proofs' of the existence of Planet X is the anomalies in the orbits of Neptune and Jupiter. When the Voyager probes flew by these planets it enabled planetary scientists to acquire much better data on the masses and orbits of the planets. <a href="http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1993AJ....105.2000S"> this paper goes into depth on what they done</a>. End result is that there are no oustanding gravitational anomlies so no evidence for a Planet X there.
There are plenty of pages written by NASA and others stating there is no Planet-X. One of note is <a href="http://itss.raytheon.com/cafe/qadir/atenth.html">Dr. Odenwalds answers</a>. This is a well balanced overview of the evidence. As he says, there may indeed be a large object out beyond Pluto. If there is it will be phenomenally difficult to find as it would be way beyond Pluto.
So, science is open on this question and accepts that we just don't know yet if a tenth planet does exist. So that implies Sitchin's/Leider's planet X can exist then? Personally I would say not. Their claim is that Planet-X has a 3600 yr highly eccentric orbit highly inclined to the plane of the solar system. There's been enough surveys of the ecliptic that Planet X should be found so it must be in a highly inclined orbit way above the plane of solar system. <A href="http://www.geocities.com/openmindxx">I M Open Minded</a> addresses this specific point. A planet in such an orbit would exceed the escape velocity of the Sun and only ever make one pass through the solar system. So, if there is indeed a tenth planet it should be in a stable orbit, this means it has a greater than 3600 yr orbit, more like 360,000 years.
<h3>Conclusions</h3>
There is no Planet X as per the claims of Sitchin or Leider. There may well be a as yet undiscovered planet out there but it is unremarkable and in a distant orbit that never brings it past Earth.
To try and bring a balanced view I'd like to present the scientific evidence for Planet-X.
Back in 1983 the IRAS probe discovered an infra-red image that did not match a known optical source. This led NASA to make a press release that was published in the Washington Post. The release is widely distributed on the Web and can be read <a href="http://www.planet-x.150m.com/washpost.html"> here</a>. That article seems to form the basis on the modern version of what Planet-X is and is oft cited as proof of it's existence. But, in the 20 years since then the data has been properly analysed and any anomalies accounted for. The IRAS team got so fed up with fielding questions on the article that they put up <a href="http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/tchester/iras/no_tenth_planet_yet.html">this page debunking the evidece</a>. In short, IRAS did not see a Solar System body and any one claiming NASA quoshed the evidence are deluding themselves, several papers where writen on these initial anomalies.
There is a chap called <a href="http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~jjm9638/matese.html">John J. Matese</a> who is looking at comet orbits and has proposed that a previously unknown large object may exist in the Oort cloud. <a href="http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0205/0205150.pdf">But this recent paper</a> argues that Dr. Matese is seeing a bias based on too small a sample and selection criteria. This is all good science with opposing views being aired and the data being analysed in depth. If there is something out there, it will be found.
One of the other major 'proofs' of the existence of Planet X is the anomalies in the orbits of Neptune and Jupiter. When the Voyager probes flew by these planets it enabled planetary scientists to acquire much better data on the masses and orbits of the planets. <a href="http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1993AJ....105.2000S"> this paper goes into depth on what they done</a>. End result is that there are no oustanding gravitational anomlies so no evidence for a Planet X there.
There are plenty of pages written by NASA and others stating there is no Planet-X. One of note is <a href="http://itss.raytheon.com/cafe/qadir/atenth.html">Dr. Odenwalds answers</a>. This is a well balanced overview of the evidence. As he says, there may indeed be a large object out beyond Pluto. If there is it will be phenomenally difficult to find as it would be way beyond Pluto.
So, science is open on this question and accepts that we just don't know yet if a tenth planet does exist. So that implies Sitchin's/Leider's planet X can exist then? Personally I would say not. Their claim is that Planet-X has a 3600 yr highly eccentric orbit highly inclined to the plane of the solar system. There's been enough surveys of the ecliptic that Planet X should be found so it must be in a highly inclined orbit way above the plane of solar system. <A href="http://www.geocities.com/openmindxx">I M Open Minded</a> addresses this specific point. A planet in such an orbit would exceed the escape velocity of the Sun and only ever make one pass through the solar system. So, if there is indeed a tenth planet it should be in a stable orbit, this means it has a greater than 3600 yr orbit, more like 360,000 years.
<h3>Conclusions</h3>
There is no Planet X as per the claims of Sitchin or Leider. There may well be a as yet undiscovered planet out there but it is unremarkable and in a distant orbit that never brings it past Earth.
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
heyya all
i am sorry to skim but i will come back and read properly.
my point i felt i had to add
was this!!!
there are several theories
and i think it is entirely possible of the planet X theory as a
pole shifting effect
however
it is fair to say that the USA is soo predisposed with starwars
weapons that something may be coming up!
is planet X a planetoid wich is containing some form of invasionary force?
are we already at war with another planet???
the truth is usualy a mix of the accumulated observations and fantasy theory!
yo "Q" ... are you raising a question or a platform?
groove on all
i am sorry to skim but i will come back and read properly.
my point i felt i had to add
was this!!!
there are several theories
and i think it is entirely possible of the planet X theory as a
pole shifting effect
however
it is fair to say that the USA is soo predisposed with starwars
weapons that something may be coming up!
is planet X a planetoid wich is containing some form of invasionary force?
are we already at war with another planet???
the truth is usualy a mix of the accumulated observations and fantasy theory!
yo "Q" ... are you raising a question or a platform?
groove on all
(regarding Planet-X)
All demonstrably false.
How so? Where's the evidence.
The US is not the only country with telescopes. Amateurs can do today what professionals dreamt of 30 years ago and there's a lot of amateurs.
Was the Hale-Bopp companion real?
No.
Oxymoronic statement.
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
hey all
"Q" ok ... please try and dazzle the readers so some may be enlightened and i can try and tell someone that they are wrong
(cheeky)
yo... thed
hi
ok so the extinction of the dinasoaurs and all those big animals was...???
Darwin theory at its' infancy?
"telescopes"
????????????
@-@
\vvv/
dude! ... nice try! ......... too obviouse!!!
you need to learn who the sciforums people are before you go round trying that on cos itl only shorten your play time!!!
hail bop ???? just when i thought you went too far
you make me gasp!!!
still i should commend you on not including the word
"SUICIDE CULT"
SO HOW DO YOU KNOW WE ARE "NOT" AT WAR WITH ANOTHER PLANET???
feel free to expand on that one
"Oxymoronic statement."
such is the egocentrism of brainwashed humans!!!
groove on all
peace...love..and missery to all greedmerchants!
"Q" ok
... please try and dazzle the readers so some may be enlightened and i can try and tell someone that they are wrong (cheeky)
yo... thed
hi
ok so the extinction of the dinasoaurs and all those big animals was...???
Darwin theory at its' infancy?
"telescopes"
????????????
@-@
\vvv/
dude! ... nice try! ......... too obviouse!!!
you need to learn who the sciforums people are before you go round trying that on cos itl only shorten your play time!!!
hail bop ???? just when i thought you went too far
you make me gasp!!!
still i should commend you on not including the word
"SUICIDE CULT"
SO HOW DO YOU KNOW WE ARE "NOT" AT WAR WITH ANOTHER PLANET???
feel free to expand on that one
"Oxymoronic statement."
such is the egocentrism of brainwashed humans!!!
groove on all
peace...love..and missery to all greedmerchants!
look up to the skies
Registered Member
planet X
I'm replying to the planet-X post in which people state that a planet will crash into the earth.
I have heard in the news that a large meteor is headed on a collision with the earth, but this collision is not expected to occur until a 100 to several 100 years have passed.
Now, i'm not sure if this information is true, but this is what i have heard.
Thank you for your time.
I'm replying to the planet-X post in which people state that a planet will crash into the earth.
I have heard in the news that a large meteor is headed on a collision with the earth, but this collision is not expected to occur until a 100 to several 100 years have passed.
Now, i'm not sure if this information is true, but this is what i have heard.
Thank you for your time.
About 65 Million Years ago at the time of the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary. Some people believe that a largish meteor hit us, probably in the vicinity of Chicxulub off the coast of Mexico. A lot of paleaontologists argue that the Dinsosaurs where going extinct anyway due to changing global weather patterns. The meteor did not kill them. Do you wish to know a little more science, I'll be happy to answer any questions as best I can. I'm not an evolutionary biologist though.
While we are talking extinction level events, what of the Pre-Cambrian event? No evidence for a meteor there.
But anyway, so you have two extinction events seperated by millions of years. Sitchins and others claim Planet X has a 3600 yr orbit. Who does the Cretaceous / Tertiary event support the claim? 65,000,000 != 3600.
Went too far? What are you talking about?
http://www.kook-watch.net/nancy
SO HOW DO YOU KNOW WE ARE "NOT" AT WAR WITH ANOTHER PLANET???
feel free to expand on that one
Looks around for evidence of highly advanced, alien war machines taking over the world and battling our military. Sees nothing, moves on.
I can see the <fnords></fnords> hidden things, can you?
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
heyya all
yo thed...
funny site!
but ive missed your point!
please expand?
are you saying thier has never been a great war on this planet?
resulting in the craters?
or are you saying 1 + 1 mostly = 2
im confused on your direction
please remeber i am mostly human so my understanding is
... mostly flawed (to err is human)
groove on all
yo thed...
funny site!
but ive missed your point!
please expand?
are you saying thier has never been a great war on this planet?
resulting in the craters?
or are you saying 1 + 1 mostly = 2
im confused on your direction
please remeber i am mostly human so my understanding is
... mostly flawed (to err is human)
groove on all
Originally posted by ripleofdeath
heyya all
yo thed...
funny site!
but ive missed your point!
You seem to be chastising me, and others, by bringing up doomsday cults. So I pointed you to a funny site. Nancy Leoder is the leading propent of Planet X returning next year, she appears to run a doomsday cult.
I'm quite large enough already, thanks. Must cut down on the beer/pasta and cheese.
There have been Great Wars between Humans, yes. The last one was World War II.
Coupled with your previous statements you seem to be implying these craters are the result of extraterrestial life using advanced weapons? In which case I would say no, they are not.
Sorry, I really don't see what you mean by that.
May be if you stated plainly what it is you mean rather than obliquely alluding to something vaque we might get somewhere.
[/QUOTE]
PROOF of Planet X!!!!!!
For those who want the truth on Planet X, here is solid PROOF of it's existence...
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planetx/index.html
For those who want the truth on Planet X, here is solid PROOF of it's existence...
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planetx/index.html
Well, it was a reference in the context of those who refer to Nibiru as the 12th planet. The sun and moon are definitely NOT planets, but there is at least the chance that Nibiru is, if it ever gets discovered. I, however, do not believe that there is a Planet X and wonder why astronomers would not speak of such an entity. I know astronomers and they are very open people. They can definitely never keep a secret (well, astronomically related).