Philosophical/psychological dealing with uncertainty

[greenberg]

Philosophical/psychological dealing with uncertainty



This topic is inspired by something that came up in the Intrinsic value thread -

In line with the points on the meta-communicative aspects of discussion -

We could just grab the bull by the horns and instead of wondering about the matrix, focus flat out on the issue of how to deal with uncertainty.

Because it seems to me that this is what underlies this discussion about the matrix and the subjective vs. objective problems.

How do we deal with uncertainty?
When we think about things, sooner or later we reach an impasse that frustrates us. There is also the realization that there are things we do not know, things we are not certain of.

What do we do then, how do we proceed? How do we deal with uncertainty?



Please discuss.

 

[Spud Emperor]

I like to think I'm humble enough and wise enough to know that I'll never know all the answers and that identifying that fact is more important than pretending to know all the answers.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

What do we do then, how do we proceed? How do we deal with uncertainty?
Please discuss.

Best case: I continue to explore, perhaps changing the mode of the inquiry, research, contemplation, experiencing and in the (often) least effective option, thinking and talking about it.

Vast amounts of immature and cranky reactions happen, but we are probably all experts in these. At least I am.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

An afterthought:

When it comes to some instances of uncertainty, I think we need to look at the possibility that we are intentionally confusing, harrassing, overloading ourselves rather than simply ending up at the edge of our certainty.

This is not an easy task.

What might the side effects be of uncertainty that are actually the reason we are drawn to that state in this instance-whatever it is-, around this issue -whatever it is-, or in general.

I can find an excuse to be uncertain about every action, reaction, position on an issue, thought, etc.

For me it is important to notice what I am doing and, horror of horrors, why. It can be a distraction sometimes if one believes the cover story that one is merely seeking 'the truth'.

 

[Non-Logical-Idea-Guy]

An afterthought:

When it comes to some instances of uncertainty, I think we need to look at the possibility that we are intentionally confusing, harrassing, overloading ourselves rather than simply ending up at the edge of our certainty.

This is not an easy task.

What might the side effects be of uncertainty that are actually the reason we are drawn to that state in this instance-whatever it is-, around this issue -whatever it is-, or in general.

are you saying we intentionally confuse ourselves so we are "uncertain" for our own mental well being? (its not unreasonable - im just clarifying before i respond.)

 

[greenberg]

When it comes to some instances of uncertainty, I think we need to look at the possibility that we are intentionally confusing, harrassing, overloading ourselves rather than simply ending up at the edge of our certainty.

...

I can find an excuse to be uncertain about every action, reaction, position on an issue, thought, etc.

Yes. In some cases, when we are -intensely and for extended periods of time- perplexed or uncertain about something, this is actually a maneouver to avoid something else.

There can be secondary gains in keeping oneself in a state of ever-frustrating wondering.

For me it is important to notice what I am doing and, horror of horrors, why. It can be a distraction sometimes if one believes the cover story that one is merely seeking 'the truth'.

Exactly.

 

[nietzschefan]

Philosophical/psychological dealing with uncertainty



This topic is inspired by something that came up in the Intrinsic value thread -




How do we deal with uncertainty?
When we think about things, sooner or later we reach an impasse that frustrates us. There is also the realization that there are things we do not know, things we are not certain of.

What do we do then, how do we proceed? How do we deal with uncertainty?



Please discuss.

"There are things known and things unknown. In between there are Doors"

Open them one at a time.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

are you saying we intentionally confuse ourselves so we are "uncertain" for our own mental well being? (its not unreasonable - im just clarifying before i respond.)

That's one possible reason. Or maybe it is an attempt at self-protection, or a way to avoid taking action or shifting our focus to problems that seem hopeless but really are vastly more pressing.

So it may not be the best option.

The teenage boy trying to come up with the exact proper line to say to the girl he has a crush on and is continuously uncertain that the latest line he has come up with is going to work or is worth a shot
might be avoiding something.

For example, perhaps he should try to figure out how to be nice to himself if it doesn't work and then just do his best.

And if he's 35, maybe it's really time to see why he has so little self-trust, rather then spending so much time figuring out how to be cool and feeling uncertain about it.

Maybe this seems 'out there' as an example, but I think such simple emotional issues play out in even the grandest seeming philosophical interactions and explorations.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Yes. In some cases, when we are -intensely and for extended periods of time- perplexed or uncertain about something, this is actually a maneouver to avoid something else.

There can be secondary gains in keeping oneself in a state of ever-frustrating wondering.

Secondary gains, thank you. I was trying to think of that phrase!

 

[greenberg]

are you saying we intentionally confuse ourselves so we are "uncertain" for our own mental well being?

I'm not sure this is what sowhatifit'sdark meant.
Denial, compensation, displacement, intellectualization and rationalization are defense mechanisms that fit his description, though.

However, employing defense mechanisms is inefficient in the long run, as it creates a thick web of confusion.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

One could sit with the feeling of uncertainty and see what happens. Instead of trying to make it resolve just spend time with the feeling portion of it, sort of a meditation on feeling. This could lead to the root of the uncertainty or ease some of the stress around it. You might realize why it is important to find out the answer. Sometimes I find this can relax me. Especially if I see I misplaced the importance or set myself a kind of trap or no win situation.

But anyway, just exploring it non-verbally for a while.

Then go back to the wordy wordy drawing board alone or with others.

 

[cosmictraveler]

When we think about things, sooner or later we reach an impasse that frustrates us

They may frustrate you but I don't get frustrated , I make a decision.

Everyone should when they have researched everything about

something they must decide about to make a good as can be decision about

something. You can only find out so much about anything before you come

to a point when a decision must be made. Waiting to long about any

decision will bring about frustration I'm certain.

 

[wesmorris]

Well I find that the human condition yields a state of agnosticism if one wants to "play fair". Most humans it would seem, do not.

However, I'd say everyone is subject to it regardless, as "what one knows" could potentially all come crashing down were one to experience clear contradictions to those beliefs. Hence, the tentative nature of knowing.

It's sort of interesting though on the whole thing where if one isn't contradicted, there's no reason to change their belief.... which of course well, yeah that's a lot of things that can be believed.

I suppose though, "how do we deal with it" is really an emotional question - and it's up to each person to determine how they deal with it. Something about coping with the precarious circumstance of being.

Sometimes I think "belief is a cost of function", and of course all things "that could be believed" but aren't, are the opportunity cost.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

They may frustrate you but I don't get frustrated , I make a decision.

Everyone should when they have researched everything about

something they must decide about to make a good as can be decision about

something. You can only find out so much about anything before you come

to a point when a decision must be made. Waiting to long about any

decision will bring about frustration I'm certain.

As far as getting out of bed and which job to apply for and the like I see your approach as matching mine. But in a discussion in a philosophy forum I figure we're talking about decisions that I approach differently than you do. I think it is hard to decide to believe for any long period of time. One can decide to act, but to decide to believe when not convinced (ie. uncertain) is not satisfying for me.

OK, it's three o'clock, better wrap it up, let's see: I decide we have no free will, there is a God, you can know other minds and you can grasp the things themselves.

 

[greenberg]

I suppose though, "how do we deal with it" is really an emotional question - and it's up to each person to determine how they deal with it. Something about coping with the precarious circumstance of being.

Could you say anything more on this? Some of your strategies, perhaps?

The thread title does say Philosophical/psychological dealing with uncertainty, so it's in place to address this "emotional" side of the issue.

 

[greenberg]

One can decide to act, but to decide to believe when not convinced (ie. uncertain) is not satisfying for me.

OK, it's three o'clock, better wrap it up, let's see: I decide we have no free will, there is a God, you can know other minds and you can grasp the things themselves.

Yes ... this just doesn't work for me either.
Even though people sometimes expect it from me.

 

[Gustav]

uncertainty of what?

wes touches on emotion. emotional security? covered by...ontological security. i find that a valid scope in ontological issues tho rather superficial. happy while one's ontology includes a god? i think not

there are layers (wessism)
uncertainty increases when one's ontology has some depth to it

 

[Gustav]

something caught my eye as i rapidly scrolled. data was encapsulated as...."teenage crush"

for real?

/cackle

 

[greenberg]

uncertainty of what?

As the OP says, "When we think about things, sooner or later we reach an impasse that frustrates us. There is also the realization that there are things we do not know, things we are not certain of."

"What is the self? Where does it come from? Do we live in a matrix?" - things like that.

covered by...ontological security.

Thanks for the term. I didn't know it before.

i find that a valid scope in ontological issues tho rather superficial.

Why superficial?
And what would be a valid scope anyway ... - one that makes the person happy?

uncertainty increases when one's ontology has some depth to it

And this is the problem.

 

[wesmorris]

Could you say anything more on this? Some of your strategies, perhaps?

The thread title does say Philosophical/psychological dealing with uncertainty, so it's in place to address this "emotional" side of the issue.

I'd rather talk about the phenomenon in general first. It just occured to me that I really think most people deal with uncertainty in one of a few ways.

- forget about it
- worry
- acceptance
- denial
- ? what did I miss.

This is the psychological side right? Okay, so on the philosophical side we have most notoriously the phenomenon of recursive regression no? What else?

Close enough?