In the wake of Obama's re-election, the White House may soon be forced by it's own rules to consider the succession of up to 20 states from the U.S.
The Daily Caller said:
Petitions from 20 States Requesting to Secede from the United States
- Thread starter madanthonywayne
- Start date
So, a big old Republican hissy fit? Because this worked out so well the first time?
Texas has received more money from FEMA than any other state. About 3.5 Billion dollars. $3,449,142,397 to be exact.
People that sign this aren't thinking about what benefits there are being part of a federal government. It's just a knee jerk reaction to not seeing the forest for the trees that Fox News kept planting. Think they'll learn their lesson, and try to verify news items that are fed to them from now on? Probably not.
Why am I not surprised? These people are the biggest drama queens I have ever seen. And having worked ambulance in a major metropolitan area, I have seen the best. I wouldn't be surprised to find this is yet another Limbaugh inspired demonstration of stupidity.
The "I'm taking my toys and going home!" plan.
An excellent first step would be stopping all federal aid and services to those states. Since for the most part they are the welfare states (the states that take in more than they pay) they'll change their minds pretty quickly. And if not, if they have no problem existing without US highways, military, air traffic control, border control, welfare, medicare, medicaid, social security etc etc then they might be taken a little more seriously.
And not all of those folks are rabid Republicans. Some are Democrats, some 30% to 40%. And Texas is becoming more and more Democratic. In another 10 years it may turn from red to blue, just like other former red states, Colorado, Nevada, Iowa, Illinois, etc.
This is really classic conservatism as practiced by this group of yahoos. Despite having lost an election by a plurality of the vote in their respective states and nationally, these yahoos cling to the false notion that they are the majority, “we the people”. Florida voted for President Obama and so did many other states with petitions including, New York, New Jersey, Colorado, Oregon and Michigan. In order to be honest they should have at least gotten that sentence correct with something like, “we the knuckleheads, the idiots, the ditto heads, ... ”.
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Please for the love of god secede! Will save us a lot of money and elections
Clearly this is all just conservatives throwing a temper tantrum out of election butt hurt! This is hilarious, lets see if they can get actually get their states to vote on a secessionist referendum, I bet even a majority of Texans aren't insane enough to vote "yes", but please by all means try, prove me wrong, do it, do it...
Clearly this is all just conservatives throwing a temper tantrum out of election butt hurt! This is hilarious, lets see if they can get actually get their states to vote on a secessionist referendum, I bet even a majority of Texans aren't insane enough to vote "yes", but please by all means try, prove me wrong, do it, do it...
It doesn't say anything important like who wants this and who is empowered to form the new Louisiana government. Nor did they state any grievance.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...ca-and-create-its-own-new-government/1wrvtngl
And the email is completely wrong when it says 25,000 signatures will “require a response” -- the actual promise is:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/how-why/terms-participation
// Edit -- Oh and the Texas petition has over 33k signers at this point.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...ca-and-create-its-own-new-government/1wrvtngl
And the email is completely wrong when it says 25,000 signatures will “require a response” -- the actual promise is:
So a valid "response" is a notice of refusal to address a proposal clearly best addressed by their own state governments and not individual petitions to the federal government. I'm unclear if it is legal for individuals to resign their citizenship, but if possible the procedure is : pay your current taxes, get a passport, get a host country, file paperwork in US Embassy in host country. At which point the need to petition to US Government is moot.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/how-why/terms-participation
// Edit -- Oh and the Texas petition has over 33k signers at this point.
Steam
Let them.
I'm not worried; these citizen petitions will require some help from their state governments. Still, though, even if it actually came to the states wanting to secede, I'm not worried about several of them. New York won't leave. Oregon won't leave. Michigan won't leave. I doubt Colorado will leave. Montana's not going anywhere. North Dakota has no place to go. Louisiana? Texas? Florida? Hell, let them secede.
Of course, part of that sentiment does arise from the conservative tendency to wrap oneself in the flag. Now that they're not getting what they want, they want to abandon the country?
Yeah, fine with me. Let them go. I have faith in democratic processes; the Republic will survive without the South; if Indiana wants to go with them, we'll get by just fine.
Indeed, the Republic might do even better without them.
Of the states most likely to entertain serious consideration of secession, most receive more federal outlay money than they pay in taxes. Of the payer states on the list, Texas is the most likely to pursue secession.
But let's be honest here: Nobody is seceding. And even if the White House gets petitions with a ton of signatures on them, the president can't really do anything about it. Congress admits the states, and while we don't have much of a protocol for secession requests, I'm pretty sure that power would not be vested in the executive.
But if people in places like Louisiana and Texas manage to build enough public support that the state government is compelled to secede, I say let them go.
Meanwhile, if anyone thinks New York, or even Colorado will move to secede? Well, I'll happily take a moment to chuckle at you.
I mean, really, what would Colorado's economy be without federal expenditure? Sixty-one billion dollars in defense contracts alone, from 2000-2011? Fifty-seven thousand defense contracts awarded over the period? Forty-nine hundred defense contractors operating in the state? No, Colorado voters ain't decidin' to secede.
And a reminder: I live in an area where secession in order to form a new nation with British Columbia is an occasional joke. True, we're slowly building the Cascadia economic cooperation zone, but BC isn't leaving Canada anytime soon, and the east half of Washington is more likely to form a new state than the west half is to ditch the U.S.
In the end, it seems like some folks are just blowing off steam, and I'm happy to let them.
Madanthonywayne said:
Let them.
I'm not worried; these citizen petitions will require some help from their state governments. Still, though, even if it actually came to the states wanting to secede, I'm not worried about several of them. New York won't leave. Oregon won't leave. Michigan won't leave. I doubt Colorado will leave. Montana's not going anywhere. North Dakota has no place to go. Louisiana? Texas? Florida? Hell, let them secede.
Of course, part of that sentiment does arise from the conservative tendency to wrap oneself in the flag. Now that they're not getting what they want, they want to abandon the country?
Yeah, fine with me. Let them go. I have faith in democratic processes; the Republic will survive without the South; if Indiana wants to go with them, we'll get by just fine.
Indeed, the Republic might do even better without them.
Net Tax Status by State
• Alabama — Recipient
• Arkansas — Recipient
• Colorado — Payer
• Florida — Payer
• Georgia — Recipient
• Indiana — Recipient
• Kentucky — Recipient
• Louisiana — Recipient
• Michigan — Payer
• Mississippi — Recipient
• Missouri — Recipient
• Montana — Recipient
• New Jersey — Payer
• New York — Payer
• North Carolina — Recipient
• North Dakota — Recipient
• Oregon — Payer
• South Carolina — Recipient
• Tennessee — Recipient
• Texas — Payer
• Alabama — Recipient
• Arkansas — Recipient
• Colorado — Payer
• Florida — Payer
• Georgia — Recipient
• Indiana — Recipient
• Kentucky — Recipient
• Louisiana — Recipient
• Michigan — Payer
• Mississippi — Recipient
• Missouri — Recipient
• Montana — Recipient
• New Jersey — Payer
• New York — Payer
• North Carolina — Recipient
• North Dakota — Recipient
• Oregon — Payer
• South Carolina — Recipient
• Tennessee — Recipient
• Texas — Payer
Of the states most likely to entertain serious consideration of secession, most receive more federal outlay money than they pay in taxes. Of the payer states on the list, Texas is the most likely to pursue secession.
But let's be honest here: Nobody is seceding. And even if the White House gets petitions with a ton of signatures on them, the president can't really do anything about it. Congress admits the states, and while we don't have much of a protocol for secession requests, I'm pretty sure that power would not be vested in the executive.
But if people in places like Louisiana and Texas manage to build enough public support that the state government is compelled to secede, I say let them go.
Meanwhile, if anyone thinks New York, or even Colorado will move to secede? Well, I'll happily take a moment to chuckle at you.
I mean, really, what would Colorado's economy be without federal expenditure? Sixty-one billion dollars in defense contracts alone, from 2000-2011? Fifty-seven thousand defense contracts awarded over the period? Forty-nine hundred defense contractors operating in the state? No, Colorado voters ain't decidin' to secede.
And a reminder: I live in an area where secession in order to form a new nation with British Columbia is an occasional joke. True, we're slowly building the Cascadia economic cooperation zone, but BC isn't leaving Canada anytime soon, and the east half of Washington is more likely to form a new state than the west half is to ditch the U.S.
In the end, it seems like some folks are just blowing off steam, and I'm happy to let them.
You mis-interpret history . . . . it was the antiwar protestors and draft evaders who moved to Canada . . . and it was the ultra-liberals, like Baldwin, Penn, Streisand, etc. who vowed to leave the US if GW Bush was re-elected . . . which he WAS . . . and NO they didn't!!
You must have missed this last campaign. They pulled the whole move to Canada spiel again. The irony was that they were complaining about the socialist movement, yet wanted to go to a more socialist country. More proof they have no clue about reality.
This does look like a hissy-fit to me. I'm sure most people haven't thought what leaving the Union would be like. Nevertheless, it doesn't surprise me in the least, I've said before I can see the Union falling apart by 2030 and I've read as much by professors of population studies saying the same.
IMO it is wonderful that the notion of "leaving" the Union is moving into the public discourse and thus public consciousness because it brings into focus the role of the State.
Is it ironic there's a movie coming out about Lincoln right now (isn't there?)? Lincoln was a product of his time. During his time the German State was coalescing as well as a Nation of "Japan" was being forged (both from smaller States). If you read some of Lincoln's comments prior to the Civil War, he actually supports States having the right to leave the Union (I wonder if that will come across in the movie?). Legally he supported them leaving. But, at that time and place in History the entire world was forming Nation States and Lincoln felt this great movement of humanity and moved our Nation with it. It should be noted Lincoln didn't care about Slavery and said he'd preserve the Union with all States, some States or no States practicing Slavery - whatever it took to save the Union.
I maintain about 55-58% of the public do not favor large government. With nearly 8% working in Government State Unions - well, they obviously vote for the Welfare State. Then you have about 7-8% actually living (often generationaly) on welfare. They vote for the Welfare State (when they bother to vote at all). Remove these people from the electorate and you'll find Progressives (as opposed to Liberals) do not represent the electorate. They certainly don't represent the productive electorate.
Anyway, again, this looks like a hissy fit BUT from a similar hissy fit our Nation was forged from the English Empire
Just imagine when life in the USA really gets tough (AND thanks to the Keynesian Central Planers and Warmongers) life is going to get much much worse than it is now. I wonder what the Bankers are going to do about it? .... let's see, what's the best way to divert attention from internal mismanagement? Ummmm.... Iran come to mind?
Which do you think it more important to the people who will force you into a cage if you refuse to pay 3-4 months of your labor per year to the ALL Benevolent Loving State? Do you think they value YOU over their beloved USD? That's the question I'd be asking myself.
IMO it is wonderful that the notion of "leaving" the Union is moving into the public discourse and thus public consciousness because it brings into focus the role of the State.
Is it ironic there's a movie coming out about Lincoln right now (isn't there?)? Lincoln was a product of his time. During his time the German State was coalescing as well as a Nation of "Japan" was being forged (both from smaller States). If you read some of Lincoln's comments prior to the Civil War, he actually supports States having the right to leave the Union (I wonder if that will come across in the movie?). Legally he supported them leaving. But, at that time and place in History the entire world was forming Nation States and Lincoln felt this great movement of humanity and moved our Nation with it. It should be noted Lincoln didn't care about Slavery and said he'd preserve the Union with all States, some States or no States practicing Slavery - whatever it took to save the Union.
I maintain about 55-58% of the public do not favor large government. With nearly 8% working in Government State Unions - well, they obviously vote for the Welfare State. Then you have about 7-8% actually living (often generationaly) on welfare. They vote for the Welfare State (when they bother to vote at all). Remove these people from the electorate and you'll find Progressives (as opposed to Liberals) do not represent the electorate. They certainly don't represent the productive electorate.
Anyway, again, this looks like a hissy fit BUT from a similar hissy fit our Nation was forged from the English Empire
Just imagine when life in the USA really gets tough (AND thanks to the Keynesian Central Planers and Warmongers) life is going to get much much worse than it is now. I wonder what the Bankers are going to do about it? .... let's see, what's the best way to divert attention from internal mismanagement? Ummmm.... Iran come to mind?
Which do you think it more important to the people who will force you into a cage if you refuse to pay 3-4 months of your labor per year to the ALL Benevolent Loving State? Do you think they value YOU over their beloved USD? That's the question I'd be asking myself.
Must have been presented by Maddow or Matthews on PMSNBC . . . which I "try" to watch . . because I'm independent of cultural news venues . . . got any links to factual sources for your post?
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
It's been argued with some persuasiveness that the Union fought the Civil War for the express purpose of teaching the population that despite what they thought, states do not actually have the right to secede.
superstring01
Moderator
In the wake of Obama's re-election, the White House may soon be forced by it's own rules to consider the succession of up to 20 states from the U.S.
The White House will respond appropriately: by ignoring it. It'll go nowhere.
~String