Paranormal feelings

[billvon]

Only if they know that the experiment is designed to prove ghosts, no?

No. That's the point of a well designed experiment. If you have three groups of researchers - one perfectly impartial, one convinced ghosts are real, and the third convinced ghosts are imaginary, then in a well designed experiment you will get similar results from all three.

At the end of the experiment, the conclusions are not determined by asking the researchers "so are ghosts real or not?" The conclusions are presented by the PI or someone else on his team who has taken the results, unblinded them and determined whether or not the capacitor discharged due to being in the haunted house.

One of the ways to learn about consciousness (from a scientific approach) is to evaluate human experiences, which isn't unlike interviews with people claiming to have experienced ghostly encounters. (But, scientists usually don't believe their stories.)

Agreed. But from such a study you could conclude, at most, "some people believe in ghosts" or "some people are afraid of ghosts." And that's not that interesting a conclusion, since we know that already.

I've rarely heard a positive, uplifting ghost story. They're usually scary tales depicting the worst of scenarios.

Wasn't the movie "Ghost" totally uplifting and happy?

 

[Seattle]

Good points. Although, I've known a few who don't believe in love.

Your points here are clearer to me now, so thanks for not giving up lol

Skeptics say that those who believe in ghosts...want to believe. But, the idea of paranormal activity, if we really stop to imagine it...is pretty unsettling. I've rarely heard a positive, uplifting ghost story. They're usually scary tales depicting the worst of scenarios.

https://www.livescience.com/why-some-people-love-being-scared.html

We know that some people are more afraid than others just as some people are more adverse to change. Some people are more educated than others. Rain gods tended to diminish once we learned more about weather.

Being afraid is a survival mechanism. Was that movement in the bush the wind or was it a Tiger? It was probably the wind but running was still the best survival tactic just in case it was a Tiger.

In general, those who "believe" in things rather than rely on facts are less educated in how the world works (physics, probability, etc) than those who rely on belief.

I'm not making a derogatory comment toward any individual and it's not 100% accurate but conservatism, being adverse to change, lack of knowledge and relying on "belief" do all tend to correlate well.

One could be highly intelligent but due to culture, they could hold certain beliefs. They could be highly educated in a general sense but not have any understanding of physic, probability or science in general and the could rely on belief.

That's why they sometimes show that chart of the sciences and the degree of religiosity and it's lowest among those with degrees in physics and astrophysic in particular and highest in biology. It's relatively low among most educated groups but lowest in those.

 

[Michael 345]

So if the bucket was swung by a regulated mechanical machine... woud the bucket rotate when the string was released

Just thinking I would say no

At the release point I think the bucket would head directly outwards the string trailing behind

For the bucket to rotate I would expect some sideways push to be applied to the string

Can't see that happening and I would think any sideways push on the string would only flex the string minutely

I'm thinking of the Scottish Highlands games. Throwing the hammer

Slightly different but you can see it does not rotate. Does wiggle a little perhaps because of some sideways push against a ridged handle not flexible string

 

[Michael 345]

consciousness

What is the big deal regarding consciousness?

Basically if you are awake - conscious - you are in a state of consciousness

You are aware of stuff going on around you, aware that you are aware of stuff going on around you, aware that there is lots of stuff at other places going on outside of the beyond your senses

So someone say what am I missing?

 

[wegs]

If you read MR's post a page back relating to paranormal activity having to do more with consciousness, you'll see why consciousness is part of this conversation, now.

 

[(Q)]

New knowledge is often built upon what we already know about the world around us. Scientists currently have nothing on the paranormal, so they have nothing to reference in regards to many of the claims made by those who assume the paranormal. So the thing is, how can anyone assume or claim the paranormal when there's nothing to reference? The concept of ghosts didn't come from evidence, it came from someone's imagination, like unicorns, trolls or orcs. When people claim a house is haunted or they've seen or experience ghosts, they're basically saying that their imaginations are running amok.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

For the bucket to rotate I would expect some sideways push to be applied to the string
Can't see that happening and I would think any sideways push on the string would only flex the string minutely

I thank so to.!!!

I'm thinking of the Scottish Highlands games. Throwing the hammer
Slightly different but you can see it does not rotate. Does wiggle a little perhaps because of some sideways push against a ridged handle not flexible string

Hard to find a good video of the hammer flyin thru the air right after its released but the one you posted is perty good.
What apears to be “hammer wiggle” after its released is actually rotation caused by the retained angular momentum which was created by the guy as he swung the hammer around.!!!

A dowel rod wit a string atached an swung overhead rotates... [an when the string is released it continues to rotate]... an its easy to see [that] rotation wit one end of the dowel rod marked.!!!

 

[billvon]

Just thinking I would say no

At the release point I think the bucket would head directly outwards the string trailing behind

For the bucket to rotate I would expect some sideways push to be applied to the string

The bucket is rotating while you are swinging it. If you release it, it will retain that rotation.

 

[James R]

Not getting a result such as a discharged battery wouldn't demonstrate that the paranormal doesn't exist. It would only mean that at that time a ghost either wasn't present or that it didn't care to discharge the battery for whatever reason.

In other words, the idea that ghosts drain batteries is unfalsifiable. If the batteries drain, the ghosts did it. If they don't, then the ghosts didn't want to do it, for reasons of their own. Either way, it's ghosts.

This is one reason why ghosts are bunk.

 

[wegs]

In other words, the idea that ghosts drain batteries is unfalsifiable. If the batteries drain, the ghosts did it. If they don't, then the ghosts didn't want to do it, for reasons of their own. Either way, it's ghosts.

This is one reason why ghosts are bunk.

I think what MR is saying is that it would be difficult to find a consistently reliable method, when it comes to ghosts.

 

[Michael 345]

The bucket is rotating while you are swinging it. If you release it, it will retain that rotation.

Got it

As soon as read your post I twigged the image

 

[Michael 345]

I think what MR is saying is that it would be difficult to find a consistently reliable method, when it comes to ghosts.

Exactly

May I also suggest it is hard to find consistently reliable ghost

 

[wegs]

Exactly

May I also suggest it is hard to find consistently reliable ghost

lol touché

 

[Seattle]

I think what MR is saying is that it would be difficult to find a consistently reliable method, when it comes to ghosts.

That's the problem with God, ghosts, ESP, etc. It's not a problem, fortunately, for everything that we know that exists.

It turns out that God works in mysterious ways and requires believe on our part. Ghosts also work in mysterious ways and requires believe on our part.

 

[Michael 345]

The bucket is rotating while you are swinging it. If you release it, it will retain that rotation.

That got me thinking about the Mexican Bolero???

Two (3) balls on string thrown to wrap around legs

 

[wegs]

That's the problem with God, ghosts, ESP, etc. It's not a problem, fortunately, for everything that we know that exists.

It turns out that God works in mysterious ways and requires believe on our part. Ghosts also work in mysterious ways and requires believe on our part.

I’m biased when it comes to God, but let’s not derail this thread off topic.

Ghosts. Ghosts ...are the topic. Like I said a page or two back, I hesitate to believe in ghosts because why. Why do they exist? Why only certain people come back to haunt?

 

[Seattle]

I’m biased when it comes to God, but let’s not derail this thread off topic.

Ghosts. Ghosts ...are the topic. Like I said a page or two back, I hesitate to believe in ghosts because why. Why do they exist? Why only certain people come back to haunt?

It could be that ghosts are a superior intellect and we just can't comprehend their plans, why they haunt only certain people and in such inconsistent and hard to comprehend ways.

If you could just take it on faith you might better appreciate ghosts and all they have to offer this world.

 

[billvon]

If you read MR's post a page back relating to paranormal activity having to do more with consciousness, you'll see why consciousness is part of this conversation, now.

That seems to be a way to say "ghosts are real but there's no way science can ever detect them because they affect consciousness, not reality." But that's true of The Force, and leprechauns, and the Easter Bunny, and every other imaginary thing/being we have ever thought up.

 

[Michael 345]

That seems to be a way to say "ghosts are real but there's no way science can ever detect them because they affect consciousness, not reality." But that's true of The Force, and leprechauns, and the Easter Bunny, and every other imaginary thing/being we have ever thought up.

Can it be inferred from this if you don't want to be bothered by ghost you can remain unconscious?

I also recall from some past post it was never explained why ghost have clothes

Do clothes have souls which die of unrequited love? and are doomed to walk the corridors of creaking floorboards?

 

[wegs]

That seems to be a way to say "ghosts are real but there's no way science can ever detect them because they affect consciousness, not reality." But that's true of The Force, and leprechauns, and the Easter Bunny, and every other imaginary thing/being we have ever thought up.

Well, it’s true of love, isn’t it? We know that love is real...but you and I will define it differently, and there aren’t any reliable methods to “test” it. Even if we say it’s a feeling...we also know that feelings are real. I’m not comparing ghosts to love, but there are real experiences that we feel subjectively, that can’t be proven objectively.

I think(?) this is what MR was suggesting.