You can tell the difference between hallucinations brought upon immediately by drugs. However, a long history of drugs, could be distorting your perception, giving you hallucinations when you are not under the influence of drugs, and hallucinations that blur the divide between reality. Some hallucinations are very real indeed, that you could see people, when their not really there. Hence, it is not very far-fetched, that your OBE is also a hallucination.
Out of body experiences.. real or fake?
- Thread starter §outh§tar
- Start date
You can tell the difference between hallucinations brought upon immediately by drugs. However, a long history of drugs, could be distorting your perception, giving you hallucinations when you are not under the influence of drugs, and hallucinations that blur the divide between reality. Some hallucinations are very real indeed, that you could see people, when their not really there. Hence, it is not very far-fetched, that your OBE is also a hallucination.
Ok, perhaps I should define my situation a bit clearer. I have a long history of drugs, but was never a regular user of hallucenigenic drugs. Non drug users seem to cram all drugs into one basket, throw a blanket over them and claim any experience is possible because he does drugs. They don't seem to understand that different drugs have different effects. I have never hallucenated on MDMA, THC, alcohol, amphetemines or PMA. Fact. From time to time I did take the occasional trips, ketamine, MDA or 2CI which are hallucenigens, but not through choice, only because of dodgy pills or lack of cash for something better. The majority of the drugs were in the first group... except PMA which nobody should take by choice.
anyway...
Lets define what a hallucenation IS. Basically my definition would be an altered visual perception of reality while conscious. Hallucenation of the other 4 senses do also occur but again, while conscious. If you are asleep, semi-conscious or unconscious it is classed as a form of dream
so...
As I had drifted out of full consciousness on my way towards sleep, hallucenation is not the appropriate term to use. Therefore, the question remains, was it a lucid dream or an actual OBE?
Sorry for the lecture, but I get so sick of people writing someone off as a loose cannon simply because they may have had drugs in the past, without any real understanding of drugs and their effects. I scored 138 and 140 on seperate IQ tests back when I was heavily into the drug scene. Yeah ok, I got most of the short term memory questions wrong, but even that is coming back now I'm clean and I expect to do much better in any future tests. I have also tested completely negative on schitzopherenia tests, although I do suffer from mild bi-polar disorder due to seretonin depletion, which affects moods, not perception. So please, CAN the hallucenation talk. Thankyou.
anyway...
Lets define what a hallucenation IS. Basically my definition would be an altered visual perception of reality while conscious. Hallucenation of the other 4 senses do also occur but again, while conscious. If you are asleep, semi-conscious or unconscious it is classed as a form of dream
so...
As I had drifted out of full consciousness on my way towards sleep, hallucenation is not the appropriate term to use. Therefore, the question remains, was it a lucid dream or an actual OBE?
Sorry for the lecture, but I get so sick of people writing someone off as a loose cannon simply because they may have had drugs in the past, without any real understanding of drugs and their effects. I scored 138 and 140 on seperate IQ tests back when I was heavily into the drug scene. Yeah ok, I got most of the short term memory questions wrong, but even that is coming back now I'm clean and I expect to do much better in any future tests. I have also tested completely negative on schitzopherenia tests, although I do suffer from mild bi-polar disorder due to seretonin depletion, which affects moods, not perception. So please, CAN the hallucenation talk. Thankyou.
an OBE is experienced when the elecric pulses that create thought inside the mind are separated tempararily, while outside the mind they can mingle with pulses tranmitted from other brains (animal or human) creating what can only be explained logically as being in a diffent place. that is because subconciously that is all ur brain can make sense of the situation.
when the brain becomes active again the electric pulse is drawn back into it and the 'crossed signals' give the illusion of leaving the body.
this mite sound kinda random but its hard 2 explain
when the brain becomes active again the electric pulse is drawn back into it and the 'crossed signals' give the illusion of leaving the body.
this mite sound kinda random but its hard 2 explain
Last edited:
ScRaMbLe said:Ok, perhaps I should define my situation a bit clearer. I have a long history of drugs, but was never a regular user of hallucenigenic drugs. Non drug users seem to cram all drugs into one basket, throw a blanket over them and claim any experience is possible because he does drugs. They don't seem to understand that different drugs have different effects. I have never hallucenated on MDMA, THC, alcohol, amphetemines or PMA. Fact. From time to time I did take the occasional trips, ketamine, MDA or 2CI which are hallucenigens, but not through choice, only because of dodgy pills or lack of cash for something better. The majority of the drugs were in the first group... except PMA which nobody should take by choice.
anyway...
Lets define what a hallucenation IS. Basically my definition would be an altered visual perception of reality while conscious. Hallucenation of the other 4 senses do also occur but again, while conscious. If you are asleep, semi-conscious or unconscious it is classed as a form of dream
so...
As I had drifted out of full consciousness on my way towards sleep, hallucenation is not the appropriate term to use. Therefore, the question remains, was it a lucid dream or an actual OBE?
Sorry for the lecture, but I get so sick of people writing someone off as a loose cannon simply because they may have had drugs in the past, without any real understanding of drugs and their effects. I scored 138 and 140 on seperate IQ tests back when I was heavily into the drug scene. Yeah ok, I got most of the short term memory questions wrong, but even that is coming back now I'm clean and I expect to do much better in any future tests. I have also tested completely negative on schitzopherenia tests, although I do suffer from mild bi-polar disorder due to seretonin depletion, which affects moods, not perception. So please, CAN the hallucenation talk. Thankyou.
A bit touchy there, Scramble.
I'm afraid, I cannot completely close the hallucination option. In fact, it's, actually very applicable to your case. Based on:
1: History of drug usage
2: Bi-polar disorder
3: Depression
What this tells me, and I know it maybe even considered unfair, but you have a history of psychological problems, and some that are present to this day too. Hence, it becomes quite difficult to test the authenticity of an extraordinary perception from someone with abnormal perception. In addition, OBE's and NDE's seem to be directly correlated with artificial alteration of perception(drugs, meditation, depleted levels of oxygen)
Therefore, please understand why I cannot beleive you, as much as I want too. If you were of normal perception; you would have a stronger case. Hence, the only way I could believe you, is if you provided me evidence in a controlled test, where something is hidden from your vantage point, and you have OBE to see it.
Till then, there is little you actually could do to convince me.
Now it is possible your OBE's are lucid dreams. However, if they are happening in a state of 100% state of consciousness, as you initially claimed, then they are most likely hallucinations.
aye touchy indeed. Please go back and re-read my first post.
Nah, fuck it... I'll just quote myself...
In Australia "drifted off" in that context means sleep. What part of this is claiming I was conscious?
What part of this statement leads you to believe I am trying to convince you of something?
What part of (mild)((or any)) bi-polar disorder causes hallucenations? Please enlighten me Dr Mikey.
What the fuck does past depression have to do with the possibility of current hallucenations?
This comment was made so people would not put on their "captain psychiatry" hat and try and disprove what I was saying, EVEN THO I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE ANYTHING.
I simply wanted to share my experience and talk about it with others who may feel they have had a similar experience, so I can come to my own conclusions. I don't feel like being psycho-analyzed by someone who only knows me by a few words on a computer screen.
you want some psychiatry? here's some.
You feel you are losing credibility on this forum due to your strong stance on UFO/ETI and are trying to regain some by showing you have the intellect to discredit someone else. The obvious choice being the parapsychology forum because you believe that is where you will find some easy targets. Dont try to deflect your flak onto me.
believe me... you aint got enough bullets.
k sunshine?
Nah, fuck it... I'll just quote myself...
In Australia "drifted off" in that context means sleep. What part of this is claiming I was conscious?
What part of this statement leads you to believe I am trying to convince you of something?
What part of (mild)((or any)) bi-polar disorder causes hallucenations? Please enlighten me Dr Mikey.
What the fuck does past depression have to do with the possibility of current hallucenations?
This comment was made so people would not put on their "captain psychiatry" hat and try and disprove what I was saying, EVEN THO I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE ANYTHING.
I simply wanted to share my experience and talk about it with others who may feel they have had a similar experience, so I can come to my own conclusions. I don't feel like being psycho-analyzed by someone who only knows me by a few words on a computer screen.
you want some psychiatry? here's some.
You feel you are losing credibility on this forum due to your strong stance on UFO/ETI and are trying to regain some by showing you have the intellect to discredit someone else. The obvious choice being the parapsychology forum because you believe that is where you will find some easy targets. Dont try to deflect your flak onto me.
believe me... you aint got enough bullets.
k sunshine?
Ouch scramble, you really have taken this personally:
I apologise for that. I mixed up Maharaja's statement for yours - can't blame me though, you both have a history of drugs, and both claim OBE.
No, as I said. It shows you have a history of psychological problems, some that are "mildly" present today. The fact that you have been tested for scihzophrenia, suggests some abnormal psychological complications. I am not saying, you are delusional or a loon, I'm suggesting, that your OBE experiences, maybe due to this.
Now, if you say yourself, you've only had one, while not in a full state of consciousness, then perhaps it is a lucid dream, but it can also be a hallucination. Lucid dreams, generally occurr, when you are coming out of REM sleep. However, you have explicitly said "you were drifting of to sleep" suggesting you were still semi-conscious.
I apologise to aggrevating you to the level, that you have to personally attack me. However, I can honestly tell you, your judgement here is wrong. I am not discrediting you to gain some false sense of credibility. I am not discrediting you.
I have, long since this topic, been actively arguing againist what I deem to be unsubstantiated, this also includes many areas of UFO/ETI. OBE is just one of those topics, that I consider to be unsubstantiated.
I have absolutely no hesitation in supporting ETI/UFO, and I feel very credible. When, doctors, scientists, high-brass officers, astronauts, who are highly educated and intelligent support my position, why should I feel uncredible? I am only supporting ETI/UFO because I have mountains and mountains of evidence, and contrary to your allegation, I do not care, if some nobodies on a forum, judge me on that - hence why would I want to gain their respects, by discrediting you? They don't care anyway. I have criticized ETI supporters, and instead of saying, "Mikey is being objective" they say "Mikey can't convince his own kind" do you really think, I need the support, of such dirty minded and narrow-minded people? No.
I am not here to discredit you. I am not at this forum to just discuss ETI, although that is my main interest. I discuss in all forums, and all topics, and here I am, in this topic, discussing OBE with you. As far as im concerned, it has nothing to do with ETI, and my views expressed here are solely for this topic.
Those were not just enough bullets ---- that was a hydrogen bomb
I apologise for that. I mixed up Maharaja's statement for yours - can't blame me though, you both have a history of drugs, and both claim OBE.
No, as I said. It shows you have a history of psychological problems, some that are "mildly" present today. The fact that you have been tested for scihzophrenia, suggests some abnormal psychological complications. I am not saying, you are delusional or a loon, I'm suggesting, that your OBE experiences, maybe due to this.
Now, if you say yourself, you've only had one, while not in a full state of consciousness, then perhaps it is a lucid dream, but it can also be a hallucination. Lucid dreams, generally occurr, when you are coming out of REM sleep. However, you have explicitly said "you were drifting of to sleep" suggesting you were still semi-conscious.
I apologise to aggrevating you to the level, that you have to personally attack me. However, I can honestly tell you, your judgement here is wrong. I am not discrediting you to gain some false sense of credibility. I am not discrediting you.
I have, long since this topic, been actively arguing againist what I deem to be unsubstantiated, this also includes many areas of UFO/ETI. OBE is just one of those topics, that I consider to be unsubstantiated.
I have absolutely no hesitation in supporting ETI/UFO, and I feel very credible. When, doctors, scientists, high-brass officers, astronauts, who are highly educated and intelligent support my position, why should I feel uncredible? I am only supporting ETI/UFO because I have mountains and mountains of evidence, and contrary to your allegation, I do not care, if some nobodies on a forum, judge me on that - hence why would I want to gain their respects, by discrediting you? They don't care anyway. I have criticized ETI supporters, and instead of saying, "Mikey is being objective" they say "Mikey can't convince his own kind" do you really think, I need the support, of such dirty minded and narrow-minded people? No.
I am not here to discredit you. I am not at this forum to just discuss ETI, although that is my main interest. I discuss in all forums, and all topics, and here I am, in this topic, discussing OBE with you. As far as im concerned, it has nothing to do with ETI, and my views expressed here are solely for this topic.
Those were not just enough bullets ---- that was a hydrogen bomb
bomb? That wasn't even a wet fart.
HOW CAN YOU BLAME ME FOR GETTING PISSED OFF WHEN YOU CONSTANTLY PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH OR MISTAKENLY TAKE THEM FROM SOMEONE ELSES???
I HAVE NEVER STATED ONCE THAT I BELIEVE WITHOUT A DOUBT IT WAS AN OBE... READ MY POSTS AGAIN
you simply construct bullshit and twist words to suit what you are trying to say.
I have a simple chemical imbalance which causes me to get easily irritated with morons like you. Just that. No other complications. I asked for the schitzophrenia test along with the IQ tests. Simply because at the time I didn't understand what it was, because yes, I was suffering from seretonin depletion causing depression. It became very clear to myself and my doctor that my only problems are PHYSIOLOGICAL not psychological and are easily treated by taking a tablet once a day to help my brain maintain seretonin uptake. NO FORM OF COUNSELLING WHATSOEVER REQUIRED.
so... I will ask again...
WHAT PART OF BI-POLAR DISORDER CAUSES HALLUCINATIONS?
When was the last time you actually recalled the instant you fell asleep?
How would you feel if some condescending fool who obviously knows nothing about drugs and their effects, has no understanding of psychiatry whatsoever, who cant even comprehend what people write, who doesn't even know me, TRIES TO TELL ME I'M CLAIMING SOMETHING THEN TRIES TO ARGUE AGAINST IT even though I have NEVER STATED ANYTHING YOU ARE ARGUEING AGAINST.
No, you have merely irritated me. There is an easy way to tell when I'm aggrevated... Its when I tear your arms out of their sockets, bash you over the head with them, while calling you a MORON, then proceed to use them to play your rib-cage like a xylophone.
so I will ask you again
READ MY POSTS AND TRY TO COMPREHEND THEM BEFORE YOU RESPOND IN FUTURE. THANKYOU.
Last edited:
Scramble, no offence, but that you would react like this, to barely nothing, must mean there is something wrong psychologically. Anyway, chill, bruv
Mikey, listen, I'm done being mad at you.
The only thing wrong with me is a whole lot of frustration caused by ignorance. Not just by you, but by many many people who don't take the time to understand one of the greatest problems society is facing today. That problem being mental disorders. The mere mention of the words make people cringe, people dont want to know or often dont try to understand. I have seen it happen time and time again to others who have various conditions. I, also, have suffered more than my share of prejudice in the past. People say they are sympathetic then subconsciously take a step back...just in case.
It broke my heart everytime it happened to me and it still breaks my fucking heart everytime I see it happen to others.
I was and still am very lucky, in that I have many good friends who have stuck by me and who have taken the time to understand. To understand that disorders can happen to anybody, not just some homeless guy ranting in the street or some "whacko" shut in, but to neighbors, friends, real people.
Others aren't as lucky. Not only do they have to deal with the many complications of trying to lead a relatively normal life, just trying to get by while dealing with a constant internal torment, many have to do it alone. For many this is a full time job in itself, just trying to keep their shit together. Then, on top of this, they also have to try to deal with prejudice, mis-information, mis-conceptions, mis-trust and ignorance with everyone they deal with in their day to day lives. People say "oh I heard so and so has mental problems". The fact that the term "mental problems" and other similar phrases cover such a broad spectrum of disorders, escapes their attention completely. Dis-orders such as schizophrenia, split-personality, chronic anxiety and bi-polar, all are completely different, with different symptoms and different treatments, but society in general lumps them all together under the term "mental problems". Once someone is known to have "mental problems" without understanding the facts, people shut a little door inside them towards that individual...just in case.
So Mikey, when you started claiming that my bi-polar disorder was causing hallucinations, you presented yourself as the archetype of these people to me. I tried to explain but you just kept on insisting. You didn't want to learn or understand. This is why I got angry at you.
and since this has gone completely off topic I do not wish to discuss it any further.
Last edited:
Scramble, your post was heartfelt, but you seem to assume, I do not relate to it? I did not say you were "mental" I said that a history of drugs and some psychological complications may account for your OBES. Otherwise, I do not consider you "mental" at all, and even if you were, I would not hold it against you.
I completely relate to your trials and tribulations and hurt. I am not an ignorant, selfish, fool, Scramble. I feel for you, and sometimes, matters like this, can make me emotional - I can shed tears, boil up in anger, or simply sit quiet for long durations of times, pondering it. You know when I see, a malnourished child on television, whose going to starve to death, It hurts me. I wish I could live his life for one day, just to see what it's like for him. You know, if I earned enough, I would only keep enough for my basic needs, and give the rest to these poor people.
I myself have lead a terrible life; a dysfunctional family; a hard time at school; not being intellectually challenged for much of childhood and teenage. Me and my mother have seen hell, ever since I was a child; we've had constant death threats, there has been attempted murders; we've ran about cities from x(no need to tell) I've grew up in this environment. I've never been able to socialize with people, in fact I detest people. Most of my relationships have ended up a complete mess. Right now, im quite old now, im seeing a psychiatrist, because im too emotionally cold, too detached from others and have trouble trusting and confiding in anyone. I am completely rational however, but im not happy with myself.
Why am I seeking ETI? Because, I consider life to be a complete waste of space and time, especially human life; it soothes me knowing, there there is a greater intelligence, and so much to see in this vast universe. I probably won't see it, but just knowing that they exist, adds some meaning to life.
I have no trouble revealing this to you. People who make judgements on me on this, are not worth addressing anyway. A true human, should be able to see, there are others in the world, and they are just like them, born in different parts of the world, in different upbringing etc. Just like you replied and told of your problems, I relate to them - but I've never thought you were "mental" you just took it the wrong way. I understand however, as you said, with such mass ignorance and ridicule for your condition, how can you trust another?
You don't know me, but let me tell you, you can trust me. I respect decent, honest people. At the same time I fume up like a cling-on to; close-minded, foolish and ignorant people. Have you ever seen me lose it on Persol, Q, Votorx, Skinwalker and others? I just have zero-tolerance for such type of people.
I completely relate to your trials and tribulations and hurt. I am not an ignorant, selfish, fool, Scramble. I feel for you, and sometimes, matters like this, can make me emotional - I can shed tears, boil up in anger, or simply sit quiet for long durations of times, pondering it. You know when I see, a malnourished child on television, whose going to starve to death, It hurts me. I wish I could live his life for one day, just to see what it's like for him. You know, if I earned enough, I would only keep enough for my basic needs, and give the rest to these poor people.
I myself have lead a terrible life; a dysfunctional family; a hard time at school; not being intellectually challenged for much of childhood and teenage. Me and my mother have seen hell, ever since I was a child; we've had constant death threats, there has been attempted murders; we've ran about cities from x(no need to tell) I've grew up in this environment. I've never been able to socialize with people, in fact I detest people. Most of my relationships have ended up a complete mess. Right now, im quite old now, im seeing a psychiatrist, because im too emotionally cold, too detached from others and have trouble trusting and confiding in anyone. I am completely rational however, but im not happy with myself.
Why am I seeking ETI? Because, I consider life to be a complete waste of space and time, especially human life; it soothes me knowing, there there is a greater intelligence, and so much to see in this vast universe. I probably won't see it, but just knowing that they exist, adds some meaning to life.
I have no trouble revealing this to you. People who make judgements on me on this, are not worth addressing anyway. A true human, should be able to see, there are others in the world, and they are just like them, born in different parts of the world, in different upbringing etc. Just like you replied and told of your problems, I relate to them - but I've never thought you were "mental" you just took it the wrong way. I understand however, as you said, with such mass ignorance and ridicule for your condition, how can you trust another?
You don't know me, but let me tell you, you can trust me. I respect decent, honest people. At the same time I fume up like a cling-on to; close-minded, foolish and ignorant people. Have you ever seen me lose it on Persol, Q, Votorx, Skinwalker and others? I just have zero-tolerance for such type of people.
Sometimes people (including myself) forget that when they are posting on forums, they are actually posting to real people., not just anonymous entities. Sometimes also they are too afraid to open themselves up, even infront of these anonymous "peers", just in case people might think they're not cool or they might destroy a so called "image" they have built up for themselves. I can now see you're not one of these people... so by me a virtual beer and that'll do me.
Mikey sez:
I am not an ignorant, selfish, fool
Can we start a thread and open this up for debate?
Why am I seeking ETI?
Lets look at your qualifiers:
I myself have lead a terrible life… a dysfunctional family… I've never been able to socialize with people, in fact I detest people… im seeing a psychiatrist… too detached from others… im not happy with myself… I consider life to be a complete waste of space and time… it soothes me knowing, there there is a greater intelligence… adds some meaning to life.
These few select phrases from your post are ample reasons for creating your alien delusions.
I am completely rational
Unfortunately, this contradicts your post and most everything else you’ve ever written here. But it completes the analysis since you must rationalize your delusions in order to justify your claims, and your life.
matters like this, can make me emotional - I can shed tears, boil up in anger, or simply sit quiet for long durations of times, pondering it.
This is certainly not the mind of a rational person, is it?
I fume up like a cling-on to; close-minded, foolish and ignorant people… Persol, Q, Votorx, Skinwalker and others? I just have zero-tolerance for such type of people
Of course you do, we represent the people you detest, the reality you find to be a complete waste of space and time, the others of which you’ve become detached.
Thank you for providing the insight into one of the minds of an alien fanatic. Although this explains much of your behavior and why you’ve created this alternative reality, it is the most sense you’ve made thus far. And at this point, there is no reason to comment further on your alien posts considering the condition you’re in and the fact you’re seeing professional help. I sympathize.
I am not an ignorant, selfish, fool
Can we start a thread and open this up for debate?
Why am I seeking ETI?
Lets look at your qualifiers:
I myself have lead a terrible life… a dysfunctional family… I've never been able to socialize with people, in fact I detest people… im seeing a psychiatrist… too detached from others… im not happy with myself… I consider life to be a complete waste of space and time… it soothes me knowing, there there is a greater intelligence… adds some meaning to life.
These few select phrases from your post are ample reasons for creating your alien delusions.
I am completely rational
Unfortunately, this contradicts your post and most everything else you’ve ever written here. But it completes the analysis since you must rationalize your delusions in order to justify your claims, and your life.
matters like this, can make me emotional - I can shed tears, boil up in anger, or simply sit quiet for long durations of times, pondering it.
This is certainly not the mind of a rational person, is it?
I fume up like a cling-on to; close-minded, foolish and ignorant people… Persol, Q, Votorx, Skinwalker and others? I just have zero-tolerance for such type of people
Of course you do, we represent the people you detest, the reality you find to be a complete waste of space and time, the others of which you’ve become detached.
Thank you for providing the insight into one of the minds of an alien fanatic. Although this explains much of your behavior and why you’ve created this alternative reality, it is the most sense you’ve made thus far. And at this point, there is no reason to comment further on your alien posts considering the condition you’re in and the fact you’re seeing professional help. I sympathize.
Here's your beer
Yes, people are afraid to open up, to not only people online, but people in real life. They put on masks, to not only hide themselves from other people, but even from themselves. Yet, in reality, they are the ones that are deluding themselves. Yet, at the same time, they are sometimes helpless, because there are many black hearted, dirty-minded thinkers, that will ridicule them for that. For instance, Q above; I'm not sure what he said, as I have had him on my ignore list for a long time now, but if I know him any better, I can bet on it he's said something very black and dirty. I say this, because I know his type, I've met so many of them in life, and that is why I detest people.
It's unfair, because I have met some people, who are honest and decent, but they are far outnumbered by the opposite.
Last edited:
§outh§tar said:
The larger reality includes an infinite number of lives, one of which you are now experiencing. Not necessarily when you’re high; I don’t do drugs except for aspirin occasionally.
You always exist, and are always changing. For example, as you absorb this information, it subtly changes you. In the larger reality there is no past or future, there is only now. Who you are now is a reproduction, with changes, of who you were in the “previous” moment. The previous moment is akin to the first of two frames in a movie. On the video these frames, and every other frame, exist simultaneously. You current life is like one movie in a infinite-sized video library. In your movies you always have the lead role, while playing a supporting role in others' movies.
Tricks, or insights? 5-year-olds, being more open-minded, are much more likely to talk about their OBEs or remembrances of past lives.
The physical body is a tool that cannot withstand some events, like decapitation. Certain chemicals, or playing too hard, may threaten the body enough to cause you to leave it temporarily. That is indeed a coping mechanism; your higher self (the self that knows everything) may choose to not experience severe trauma to your body. You can also leave your body voluntarily.