Out of body experiences.. real or fake?
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Tell me, what you're using in reality then 
Reality is what you now peceive. Although REALITY maybe something you don't perceive.
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Why are you so curious, work for the DEA ?
In a past life, I've tried many tryptamines/phenethylamines including LSD, psilocybe mushrooms, AMT, MDMA, MDA, 2ci, 2cb, 2-ct-7, 2-ct-2, DXM, Ketamine, Salvia, 5-MeO-DMT, Mescaline, 5-MeO-DiPT, 5-MeO-MiPT, Nitrous... the list goes on into other things, but most of these I had found to be most enlightening and enjoyable.
In a past life, I've tried many tryptamines/phenethylamines including LSD, psilocybe mushrooms, AMT, MDMA, MDA, 2ci, 2cb, 2-ct-7, 2-ct-2, DXM, Ketamine, Salvia, 5-MeO-DMT, Mescaline, 5-MeO-DiPT, 5-MeO-MiPT, Nitrous... the list goes on into other things, but most of these I had found to be most enlightening and enjoyable.
That is very interesting Maharaja. Unfortunately, knowing that you have a history of powerful hallucinogenic drug usage. It puts a question mark on your claim of having a OBE of where your mind existed externally. I hope you understand
*Shrug* That is your perogative. I would like to site an example I heard about a while ago though...
A tibetan monk who had been practicing deep meditation for somewhere along the lines of 30 odd years agreed to try LSD. After ingesting 5 hits, the person who administered the drug asked him to describe how he felt. The monk exclaimed, "How is this different then any other experience? Do you not feel this way all the time?"
I feel that meditation is just another path to the same destination, and a lot more work.
A tibetan monk who had been practicing deep meditation for somewhere along the lines of 30 odd years agreed to try LSD. After ingesting 5 hits, the person who administered the drug asked him to describe how he felt. The monk exclaimed, "How is this different then any other experience? Do you not feel this way all the time?"
I feel that meditation is just another path to the same destination, and a lot more work.
Well Maharaja, unfortunately it is hard to discriminate between your claimed "OBE" brought upon by a history of hallucinogentic drug usage, and hallucinations brought upon by the same. Hence due to a lack of evidence, and because of the fact, that these drugs induce hallucinations, it becomes more likely, your OBE is a hallucination.
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"Secondly, this only happens in natural/nearing death situations, in particular, with depleting oxygen levels. It does not happen in unnatural/instant death situations; such as dying from falling, being shot dead, shocked, poísoned, cardiac arrest etc."
I have several relatives in the emergency services field and they have had patients describe NDE's from all manner of brushes with death, including all of the above. The recent studies in Denmark were primarily cardiac arrest victims. Also, a number of people have reported information they could not have gained from the vantage point of their bodies.
I have several relatives in the emergency services field and they have had patients describe NDE's from all manner of brushes with death, including all of the above. The recent studies in Denmark were primarily cardiac arrest victims. Also, a number of people have reported information they could not have gained from the vantage point of their bodies.
Paula, could you share a case where someone has had an NDE from being shot dead, shocked, ********, heart attack etc. Could you also share more informtion on what the subject saw when they were "out of their body"
Maharaja... wow...finally... someone with credentials.
ketamine + acid + nossie = freaky, freaky shit. Well at least it did in a "past life" experience of mine...very very transcendental.
(disclaimer - dont do drugs kids or you'll just end up as f**ked up as me and nobody wants that)
ketamine + acid + nossie = freaky, freaky shit. Well at least it did in a "past life" experience of mine...very very transcendental.
(disclaimer - dont do drugs kids or you'll just end up as f**ked up as me and nobody wants that)
I have OBEs, without drugs or change in breathing. There's tons of info about this subject that you can look up on Google, including info on how to induce it. If you sincerely ask around I think you'll likely find people who will admit to having these experiences or a near-death experience. They are more common than most people know.
Everyone I know or have read about who's had an OBE or NDE has had it change their life in some way, often in a big way. To me there is no doubt that it offers a glimpse of a larger reality that is exceptionally elegant, logical, and wonderful. I think the preponderance of evidence from lots of phenomena including OBEs and NDEs shows beyond reasonable doubt that life does not end with death, and, logically, had no beginning. Life is an ever-changing process, not a birth-to-death set of events.
Today I watched a 3D movie about the space station. It was great, but not in the same class as an OBE, which is typically better than any theme park ride. You are right in the action, not just watching it. My OBEs always have some elements that are not the same as this reality; for example, my house may be open to the sky. I cannot label the reality in which I write this post as the one and only; I can only say that it lasts longer and that it's different.
Everyone I know or have read about who's had an OBE or NDE has had it change their life in some way, often in a big way. To me there is no doubt that it offers a glimpse of a larger reality that is exceptionally elegant, logical, and wonderful. I think the preponderance of evidence from lots of phenomena including OBEs and NDEs shows beyond reasonable doubt that life does not end with death, and, logically, had no beginning. Life is an ever-changing process, not a birth-to-death set of events.
Today I watched a 3D movie about the space station. It was great, but not in the same class as an OBE, which is typically better than any theme park ride. You are right in the action, not just watching it. My OBEs always have some elements that are not the same as this reality; for example, my house may be open to the sky. I cannot label the reality in which I write this post as the one and only; I can only say that it lasts longer and that it's different.
Ok... Due to my drug related past I realise I have no credibility on this subject so I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I have been clean for bout 6 months now,but anyways...
4 or 5 months back I posted in a similar thread talking about a previous experience and I wasn't sure if it was an OBE or lucid dream. I've had another since. It happened about a week ago. I was laying on the couch during late afternoon and drifted off. I wasn't meditating just relaxing and completely sober. Anyway, at some point I "woke up" and could see the room around me but I knew it wasn't my normal state of reality. It occured to me that i wasn't conscious and it could be an OBE. Looking back,i t was strange how completely casual and natural my thoughts were about it. I decided to try and "get out" of my body.
As with previous experiences, when i tried to sit up, it felt like rubberbands were attatched to my limbs and body, holding me in place. I did eventually manage to sit up, although strained and somehow looked back and saw myself laying there!!! In the same clothes I was wearing with eyes closed. That lead me to believe, while it was happening that it was an OBE. So next I tried to leave my body completely.
After struggling with the "rubberbands" for what seemed like about 5 min, I tried rolling off the couch instead... It worked!!! I was on the floor. I felt so fucking heavy though. I crawled across the floor about a metre in what seemed like slow motion and can distinctly remember seeing hairs and bits of dirt on the floor and was looking at different objects in the room from angles that couldn't have been conjered up from memory alone, as I dont make a habit of crawling around on the floor. Very detailed and realistic, not like a normal dream which only has details of what you're paying attention to, I had periferal (sp?) vision as well. As the front door was open, I could hear the neighbors talking outside. Not what they were saying, but still louder than what my usual f**ked up hearing can hear. I thought to myself "shit... what if they come to the front door" and instantly ended up back in my body. Thats all I remember before I "woke up". Still dunno what to make of it and I'm still not convinced it was anything more than a lucid dream. Only wish I had observed something which would have proved it one way or another, at least in my mind!
4 or 5 months back I posted in a similar thread talking about a previous experience and I wasn't sure if it was an OBE or lucid dream. I've had another since. It happened about a week ago. I was laying on the couch during late afternoon and drifted off. I wasn't meditating just relaxing and completely sober. Anyway, at some point I "woke up" and could see the room around me but I knew it wasn't my normal state of reality. It occured to me that i wasn't conscious and it could be an OBE. Looking back,i t was strange how completely casual and natural my thoughts were about it. I decided to try and "get out" of my body.
As with previous experiences, when i tried to sit up, it felt like rubberbands were attatched to my limbs and body, holding me in place. I did eventually manage to sit up, although strained and somehow looked back and saw myself laying there!!! In the same clothes I was wearing with eyes closed. That lead me to believe, while it was happening that it was an OBE. So next I tried to leave my body completely.
After struggling with the "rubberbands" for what seemed like about 5 min, I tried rolling off the couch instead... It worked!!! I was on the floor. I felt so fucking heavy though. I crawled across the floor about a metre in what seemed like slow motion and can distinctly remember seeing hairs and bits of dirt on the floor and was looking at different objects in the room from angles that couldn't have been conjered up from memory alone, as I dont make a habit of crawling around on the floor. Very detailed and realistic, not like a normal dream which only has details of what you're paying attention to, I had periferal (sp?) vision as well. As the front door was open, I could hear the neighbors talking outside. Not what they were saying, but still louder than what my usual f**ked up hearing can hear. I thought to myself "shit... what if they come to the front door" and instantly ended up back in my body. Thats all I remember before I "woke up". Still dunno what to make of it and I'm still not convinced it was anything more than a lucid dream. Only wish I had observed something which would have proved it one way or another, at least in my mind!
That sounds great Scramble. As much as I want to believe you, there is almost no evidence. It sounds more like you had a hallucination, which too, can feel very real, and also give distorted sound and visuals. The only way you could prove it, if you can prove you saw the something beyond your vantage point, and also prove that something was there.
I think I could explain why OBE's can give you new vantage point: If you take my example, I have an extremely active imagination and powerful spatial intelligence - I could for instance, navigate, every place I've been to - to several miles. If for instance, I had an OBE hallucination, I could actually navigate around my city -except, it would feel real, as if i've really left my body and am moving across my city. This could explain how those who experience OBE's see beyond their vantage point.
I think I could explain why OBE's can give you new vantage point: If you take my example, I have an extremely active imagination and powerful spatial intelligence - I could for instance, navigate, every place I've been to - to several miles. If for instance, I had an OBE hallucination, I could actually navigate around my city -except, it would feel real, as if i've really left my body and am moving across my city. This could explain how those who experience OBE's see beyond their vantage point.
Mikey - My druggie past means I have no chance of convincing anyone else about subjects like this... "Hallucinations" being the expected response I knew I would get. The advantage I do have is vast experience with altered realities and a deeper understanding of human perception of reality. People can talk about understanding what I mean but unless they've actually experienced it, they are only understanding theories, they dont have the "knowing" that can only come from actual experience. They may argue that people who have anorexia or schitzopherenia or other perception altering conditions would also have this experience and this is true. The difference being, for many of them it is a constant mental state, they don't have the advantage of being able to step in and out of that particular box they call reality and see it from both sides.
I can tell the difference between hallucinations, flashbacks and normal dreams. The difficulty comes in differentiating between lucid dreams and a so called "out of body" experience. I say "so called" because although I am open to the possiblity I have yet to prove to myself that this phenomenon actually exists. The concept does intrigue me greatly tho!
This is the key. The only problem is I have only had two such experiences, both happening without any intention of inducing them or any warning whatsoever that they would happen. This makes it difficult to set up some sort of test... ie flipping say 5 coins and without looking at the results, leaving them in another room so I can view the result while having an "OBE" and then later verifying. I have no way of knowing when and if it will occur again, could be tomorrow, could be 18 months from now!
I think I will set up a test like that, just in case, but until something happens again which I can verify I will just remain open minded on the subject.
I can tell the difference between hallucinations, flashbacks and normal dreams. The difficulty comes in differentiating between lucid dreams and a so called "out of body" experience. I say "so called" because although I am open to the possiblity I have yet to prove to myself that this phenomenon actually exists. The concept does intrigue me greatly tho!
This is the key. The only problem is I have only had two such experiences, both happening without any intention of inducing them or any warning whatsoever that they would happen. This makes it difficult to set up some sort of test... ie flipping say 5 coins and without looking at the results, leaving them in another room so I can view the result while having an "OBE" and then later verifying. I have no way of knowing when and if it will occur again, could be tomorrow, could be 18 months from now!
I think I will set up a test like that, just in case, but until something happens again which I can verify I will just remain open minded on the subject.