Out of body experiences.. real or fake?

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§outh§tar

is feeling caustic
Registered Senior Member
Can anyone give me the facts on this, my friend is doing a research paper and I need some facts and opinions to write an opening paragraph, thnx.

Personally, I don't know if seeing angels or going to heaven/hell is at all credible.. I don't know if God gives people "glimpses" off the "other side" to "persuade" them or whatnot but since I am wet behind the ears on this topic, I'll let the experts handle it :D
 
near death experiences are virtually the same as an out of body experience, the only difference is the obvious: either you're dying or you're alive. i do know that near death experiences are real, as my mom (a cardiac care nurse) viewed various experiences with her patients that just came out of 'code blue.' many patients were describing what a near death experience is. it makes sense, i guess.
out of body experiences... hmm. i personally believe in them because i've experienced that altered state of mind numerous times (although my spirit united with my body fairly quickly due to fear). i believe that they are real because i've experienced it - try 'proving' its existence to someone who hasn't experienced it, you know?
 
Yes, i agree with roots. OOBEs are real, and are a great, life changing experience. Not only would it help you with achiving more wisdom, but would also help you with your spiritual growth. This can ONLY br prooven by trying it your self. I have had more then one experience with astral projection within about one year. A OOBE is when you transfer your consciousness to your astral or ethric body. You do this every night as your sleep, but you are un-conscious, the result of that is the dreams we get. Conscious astral projection is NOT a dream. For you are 100% aware, have your self ego, and is felt like consciousness in the physical, unlike the dream state, were as it is like a motion picture, displayd in the minds eye.

A near death experience is when your body has a close brush with death, and transfers its conscious spontaniously to your higher vibrational body. Usualy at a NDE, you sence a higher presence, sometimes see loved ones, and view your life as a short movie. The atmosphere is usualy loving and at peace.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask :)


Omnis...
 
i am beginning to wonder now... WHY do people view their lives as a short movie during a NDE? does it actually happen because it 'should' happen, or does it happen because we THINK it should happen?
maybe it happens so that the spirit can see the entire life quickly... which would make more sense for memory recal of the past life?
 
I think I have an explanation for NDE and the replay of memories.

When nearing a natural death, the oxygens levels to the brain deplete dramatically, this is known to make the subject lapse in and out of consciousness. This in turn induces a fuzzy reality type state, which is neither fully awake or fully asleep. Many of us, have also have experienced a smaller-scale version of in this in lucid dreams. In lucid dreams, the divide between reality and imagination becomes blurred, giving the illusion, that our imagination/dream is real, and is really taking place.

I have had such dreams myself, where I've physically felt, I've floated out of my body. The experience was vivid and felt, perhaps liberating, yet at the same time terrifying. I was consciously aware that it was a dream; my fear was my paralysis - inability to animate my limbs or breathe properly, and break out of my dream. Sometimes it felt, as if I'd never wake up again. With every ounce of energy in my body, and extreme determination, I managed to open my eyes and see the surroundings of my bedroom, yet struggling with some unknown force, that was attempting to pull me back in; and it did pull me back in, and I tried to fight it, for what seemed like an eternity of struggle, lapsing in and out of my dream repeatedly. Eventually, and perhaps the fear of death is one factor that empowered me, I would fire on every cylinder, and shoot up upright, sometimes lunging myself of my bed.... It was always a dream.

Now try and realise this. I was not near death. Yet, these people who experiece NDE; are. They do not have energy, or the determination, to lapse out of their state, and in addition to that, they suffer severe oxygen depletion. This cause many neural pathways in the brain to break, in other words your state of mind is in a frenzy: memories, thoughts, ideas, fears, randomly fluctuating erratically, creating this bizzarre, but, surreal reality.

Now the following comes into play:

1: Memories replaying back to them
2: Preconcieved notions of death projected in front of them
3: The physical feeling of leaving the body

We can see, that this may indeed be the case, by analysing common traits of NDE: The experience is always culture specific: some see Jesus; some see Buddha; some see God; some see their relatives; some see hell. Therefore, their experience is always moulded on their belief systems.

Secondly, this only happens in natural/nearing death situations, in particular, with depleting oxygen levels. It does not happen in unnatural/instant death situations; such as dying from falling, being shot dead, shocked, poísoned, cardiac arrest etc.

Thus by a process of logic, it becomes quite clear, that NDE is not real, as in a touch and go with after life, and is basically a natural biological side-effect of the dying brain.

Non-death OBE is also a similar mechanism. Not exactly a dying brain, but a brain with depleted levels of oxygen, or under the influence of hallucinogenic compounds. In fact, most of the time I had OBE-like experiences, I also found it difficult to breathe.
 
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OBE or Astral Projection or whatever you want to call it appears to be fake. No evidence whatsoever exists that would suggest an entity and the mechanisms which control this so-called entity leave and return to our bodies.
 
This guy always appers at the OOBE/astral projection threads, just ignore his/her posts to avoid future arguments.

remember the astral enviroment is molded by thought, if you beleive you would see God, you mostlikly will :)
 
remember the astral enviroment is molded by thought

Correct, it is all in your mind.
 
"i am beginning to wonder now... WHY do people view their lives as a short movie during a NDE? does it actually happen because it 'should' happen, or does it happen because we THINK it should happen?
maybe it happens so that the spirit can see the entire life quickly... which would make more sense for memory recal of the past life? "

The past life recal is correct, at the moment of death. Its sometimes not viewd as a movie, some times its like a picture album, what ever your sub-conscious thinks is best. :)
 
Onn1s... that is interesting. thought shapes everything. can a person easily review what they've lived in their lifetime during an OBE or does it have to be at the END of life?
 
Onn1s said:
This guy always appers at the OOBE/astral projection threads...
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Ah, yes. Q is the OOBE/astral projection thread apparition... doomed to endlessly wander the corridors of SciForums bearing the Lantern of Critical Thinking. Oh, the humainty.

:D Peace.
 
Crazymike, your explanation makes sense except for one thing...Why do atheists also have near death experiences which change them from non-believers to believers, when they are having this oxygen depletion why wouldn't they simply have a dream experience that they don't connect with life after death. I do agree that NDEs and OBEs are similiar but NDEs appear to ALWAYS be a spiritual experience whether one considers themself a spiritual person or not, in other words at death our brains appear to be programmed to have a spiritual experience...the strange thing is that evolution can not account for this...since their is no survival advantage to having an NDE since most people do in fact die, we obviously only hear from the fraction of people that live.
 
Grover, but are these atheists really atheists at the roots? You see during death, the brain and body is fighting to stay alive, and one such fight, is the fight of hope. Thus atheism becomes illogical at this stage, and the brain consults a more compatible alternative philosophy(spirituality/god) that the dying person would most certainly have been subjected too.

That being said, I do think there is a possibility for quantum regeneration of the mind. It may be possible that there really is a soul and an afterlife, but there is little to no evidence to suggest that is the case, at least of what I know of.
 
I for one believe in OOBEs because I've experienced it, first hand, several times. It is, as Onn1s pointed out, a truly life-changing experience. Saying that it is "all in your head" is quite hilarious to me, especially from a philosophical point of view. Everything is "in your head" and the alteration of perception is no different then the alteration of reality, to you. Hallucinations are as real as you want them to be, no less or more real then anything else in this universe. Once you come to full realization of this aspect of life, you are on the path to mental emanicaption, imo. :)
 
crazymikey said:
I think I have an explanation for NDE and the replay of memories.

When nearing a natural death, the oxygens levels to the brain deplete dramatically, this is known to make the subject lapse in and out of consciousness. This in turn induces a fuzzy reality type state, which is neither fully awake or fully asleep. Many of us, have also have experienced a smaller-scale version of in this in lucid dreams. In lucid dreams, the divide between reality and imagination becomes blurred, giving the illusion, that our imagination/dream is real, and is really taking place.

I have had such dreams myself, where I've physically felt, I've floated out of my body. The experience was vivid and felt, perhaps liberating, yet at the same time terrifying. I was consciously aware that it was a dream; my fear was my paralysis - inability to animate my limbs or breathe properly, and break out of my dream. Sometimes it felt, as if I'd never wake up again. With every ounce of energy in my body, and extreme determination, I managed to open my eyes and see the surroundings of my bedroom, yet struggling with some unknown force, that was attempting to pull me back in; and it did pull me back in, and I tried to fight it, for what seemed like an eternity of struggle, lapsing in and out of my dream repeatedly. Eventually, and perhaps the fear of death is one factor that empowered me, I would fire on every cylinder, and shoot up upright, sometimes lunging myself of my bed.... It was always a dream.
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I believe there is actually a better explanation then the loss of oxygen in the brain. I have experienced the loss of oxygen in my brain, and no it is not quite as amazing as a NDE/OOBE. A better explanation would be that your pineal gland secretes, 5-MeO-DMT and DMT, the 2 most powerful hallucinogens known to man, and an MAOI, which potentiates the effects of these chemicals. You should read DMT: The Spirit Molecule, by Dr. Strassman (I think that's his name i'm really just too lazy to look it up). It is a very intriguing look at this hallucinogen.
 
Maharajah, I would kill to have such an experience, that completely changes my life and advances my spirituality, EVEN if it was all in my head. Having a mind, and a life like mine, you could see, why I would - having to live every moment in a painful void, amongst ignorant deluded fools,and not knowing what to do with life.

So tell me how do have these OBE; do they just happen spontaneously; do you take certain drugs; do you go into an environment low on oxygen; do you believe in so much - that it happens?

Oh, and something else, how do you know for sure, it is not a a dream, or in your mind?
 
A better explanation would be that your pineal gland secretes, 5-MeO-DMT and DMT, the 2 most powerful hallucinogens known to man, and an MAOI, which potentiates the effects of these chemicals.
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Perhaps it a combination of many factors, including that. When the brain is dying, i'm sure there is a lot of hectic activity. This still does not suggest that the mind can exist externally. Although I'm not against that possibility either.
 
crazymikey said:
Maharajah, I would kill to have such an experience, that completely changes my life and advances my spirituality, EVEN if it was all in my head. Having a mind, and a life like mine, you could see, why I would - having to live every moment in a painful void, amongst ignorant deluded fools,and not knowing what to do with life.

So tell me how do have these OBE; do they just happen spontaneously; do you take certain drugs; do you go into an environment low on oxygen; do you believe in so much - that it happens?

Oh, and something else, how do you know for sure, it is not a a dream, or in your mind?
Click to expand...


All of my OOBEs have come from use of dissociative drugs (DXM, Ketamine, never tried PCP though), usually mixed with marijuana and meditation.

And the only way I'm sure that it is not a dream, is the same logic that I know I'm know dreaming while I write this post (i.e. not sure at all, but it doesn't really matter does it? :)
 
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