Our attitude concerning mockery of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon

Its those people who are dishonest who try to change other people's words to what they want them to be. Sadly, some people will never learn.
 
Arsalan said:
The core of my belief system is the Quran. I have provided you with what I believe to be the core message of Islam from the Holiest Book in Islam: gaining nearness to God, and thereby enlightenment, through worship and knowledge.
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I am still not sure what exactly is the core novel enlightening message in Islam? This should be a no brainier.

I’ll give you an example of what I'm getting at:

My message: e=mc^2.

So? What do you think? I mean, that’s some awesome information isn’t it? I mean e=mc^2 is so simple yet says so much. You must think I’m a VERY clever mathematical and physicist huh? Oh, but you don’t. Why? I just told you e=mc^2. THAT is amazing. The reason why you don’t is because I didn’t discover that information. Einstein did. He came up with this equation first, he’s a clever mathematical and physicist. Not me.

What is the Qur’an’s e=mc^2?


Think of this. A great math book will contain a lot of great math. BUT, if the person who wrote this great math book never came up with a single novel equation, then I would say that the book may be great but it’s just a copy of other people’s work. The person who wrote it was not a great mathematician himself. He was good at taking other people’s work and compiling it. If he then claimed HE was inspired to write e=mc^2, I’d say he’s a plagiarist.

Wouldn’t you agree?

Arsalan said:
Universality is a central message in Islam.
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I’m not disputing your interpretation, what I am saying is: what is novel about Islam’s concept of Universality? We agree that the concept of ‘Universality’ already existed pre-Islam. Buddhism for example has a Universal message. Xiantiy has a Universal message. Greeks had a universal message. What I want to know what is new about Islam’s concept of Universality.

Could you explain exactly what is meant by “People of the Book”? You write that Muslims misinterpret “People of the Book” to mean Abrahamic based religions. OK, fair enough, but how are “People of the Book” different from “People not of the Book”? Where Arabic polytheists “People of the Book”?

How does all of this fit within the Islamic concept of Universality?

Can you explain for example how a Hindu worshiping at a Shiva shrine is a person of the book?

Also, I find it a little off that Allah would delineate People of the Book from People not of the Book, IF, everyone is people of the book and if people from all over the world are inspired by a real prophet. Why even make the distinction? It seems to me that maybe you are just being an Islamic apologist.

Lastly, I’d say it’s splitting hairs to suggest your religion is “Universal” when you say you accept the validity of all other religions. Because, in reality you are not different from the Xian. In the end you just say these other people's religious messages was not eternal. This is just another way of saying it’s now wrong. In the end, you and the Xian end up at the same place. Maybe you take a different route, but the designation is the same. My religion and religious book is now correct and yours is not “completely” (as as) correct as mine.

That is unless you are saying all religious belief is equally valid? Is that what you are saying? If so then I think that this should be the definition of Islamic Universality. I will then agree that this is a novel enlightening message.

Arsalan said:
I don’t recall putting Christianity to any test except saying that the message in their core Holy Books is that the Message sent to them was not meant for anyone outside of the House/Tribe of Israel.
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This is not true. Xiantiy is a religion for anyone who accepts Jesus as the Messiah. Anyone in the world. Actually, before the Roman’s banned conversion a lot of people converted to Judaism. 1 in 10! People still do. If you want to become a Jew you can. Lastly, Buddhism is also open to anyone to join that belief.

Arsalan said:
Mr. Hubbard taught a message that was completely alien to the vast majority of religious messages in this world. Furthermore, his message is completely separate from any message by the Abrahamic Prophets. As a Muslim I believe that, as Prophesied in various earlier Holy Books and religious songs around the world, the Quran contains the final message for mankind. Therefore, I don’t believe he was a real prophet but being a Muslim I respect him, his followers and their religion.
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This is that designation I was talking about two quotes up.

Does the following sentence make sense to you:

I think Mohammad was fully of bunk, he was not a real prophet, he made it all up, his followers are following a book of lies, but, I respect him and his followers and their religion.


I don’t know Arsalan, seems oxymoronic if you ask me.

Arsalan said:
Grecoe-Buddhism spread from what are now India, Pakistan and Afghanistan to the East. It had no connection or influence to the area Jesus lived in. Furthermore, it is highly unlikely that a young boy would know anything about it, let alone leave for India alone and then come back.
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Greeks were influenced by Buddhism and Greeks influenced Judaism. The connection is obvious to see. The existence of Jesus is mute. Greeks were influenced by Indians and Greeks Hellenized the Jews and Greeks founded Xianity. Again, the connection is plain to see.

Arsalan said:
Furthermore, since people don’t have any trouble calling terrorism Islamic terrorism or Islamic militancy and terrorists as Muslims or Islamists, regardless of whether the terrorists are actually Arabs, Chinese, Moroccan, American or English, they shouldn’t have any trouble calling it the Islamic Golden Age. Let me put it this way: a certain Ibn Haytham, born in Spain, blows himself up in a train. He is Muslim. Now, does the world call him a Spanish terrorist or a Muslim terrorist?
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This is a good point. We need to move away from saying Muslim or Islamic terrorist and say Spanish criminal or Spanish mass murderer.

Arsalan said:
Scientific Method
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The Qur’an specifies the Scientific Method? Really? Wow, could you post the verse please?

Here’s the method:
1. Use your experience: Consider the problem and try to make sense of it. Look for previous explanations. If this is a new problem to you, then move to step 2.

2. Form a conjecture: When nothing else is yet known, try to state an explanation, to someone else, or to your notebook.

3. Deduce a prediction from that explanation: If you assume 2 is true, what consequences follow?

4. Test : Look for the opposite of each consequence in order to disprove 2. It is a logical error to seek 3 directly as proof of 2. This error is called affirming the consequent.

An Egyptian medical textbook, the Edwin Smith papyrus, (circa 1600 BC), applies the basic components of scientific method: examination, diagnosis, treatment and prognosis, to the treatment of disease.

Arsalan, please do not tell me the Qur'an also invented zero. Anything but that one! :D

Cheers,
MII
 
This must be the 5,445th time that Michael has asked the same question.
 
Don't ask a question if you don't want to hear the answer. It's rather simple.
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I'm not sure what that repeated question is, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen anything resembling an answer.

Is it mockery of the Prophet to treat the finding of all kinds of premonitions and foretellings in the Quran with levity ?
 
S.A.M. said:
You could start with the Economist review of her book, the Dutch film Zembla or the details of how she retained her Dutch citizenship. Or you could address her inconsistensies in her stories about her family. Whatever you choose, you are free to make up your own mind. Currently she is a "fellow" of an anti-abortion, anti-homosexual neoconservative organisation. That alone speaks volumes to me about her opportunistic nature.
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I have seen none of these, but I will investigate. You post no links, so my investigation will necessarily be slowed. I've heard of the Dutch professor who claims to know her, but have seen no evidence of their association apart from a conference they both attended.

S.A.M. said:
This must be the 5,445th time that Michael has asked the same question.
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It will be the 5,445th time that he receives no answer, then.

DiamondHearts said:
Some people have this habit.

Don't ask a question if you don't want to hear the answer. It's rather simple.
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??

Actually, I think he wants to hear the answer. Why do you use such language, when you realize its naive deceptiveness?
 
S.A.M. said:
This must be the 5,445th time that Michael has asked the same question.
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Well SAM, your answer was "nothing". You also said that the Qur'an may not be as good as CoS literature for the modern theist. Which is all fine. So those conversations are done for you. It took a long time but we finally squeezed an answer of two from you :D

Arsalan isn't SAM and Arsalan hasn't gotten to that stage yet. Arsalan seems to be suggesting "Universality" is novel. It isn't novel in and of itself but maybe there is some sort of "Islamic" twist in there.... I also question Arsalan's notion that Islam accepts all religions while also suggesting that they are "dated" - how is this different than saying they are wrong? It really isn't it is it. Also, there's Arsalan's notion of "People of the Book". I'm unclear as to how this fits with Islam's acceptance of all people's belief. Lastly, I find it curious that you once said that the polytheists were wrong in their belief while Arsalan here says their belief is acceptable - as a matter of fact they are still practicing polytheism in Mecca to this day and Muslims are perfectly accepting and fine with this - because "Islamic Universality" is a central tenant of Islam.

Didn't you know?

I think there is a natural desire to want to think that the Qur'an has something new and enlightening to offer. But, if there isn't anything then there simply isn't. IMO the person who copies e=mc^2 into his new mathbook is doing just that - copying. Anyone can do it. The new math book is not really a "continuation" if the new mathematician hasn't added anything new to it. How can it be a "continuation" of mathematics without adding new math to the field? It can't. And saying "I'm the last mathematician" really doesn't cut it as a continuation of mathematics does it? No it doesn't.

Simple really,
Michael
 
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no back peddling now SAM.... you're over the falls :p

I distinctly remember ... nothing new just a continuation and sure CoS literature could offer better religious instruction when compared with the Qur'an.
 
I think you have a habit of deciding what the answer is and then looking for confirmation. Its probably why you keep asking over and over, the same questions of everyone. No answer other than the one you want will satisfy you.
 
Irrelevant of course. A construct for relativity describes perception, God or Islam is about the why, not the how.
 
S.A.M. said:
I think you have a habit of deciding what the answer is and then looking for confirmation. Its probably why you keep asking over and over, the same questions of everyone. No answer other than the one you want will satisfy you.
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Oh please SAM. Remember that one time you somehow concluded that your way of thinking is soooo different that these mortal words simply couldn't convey the meaning necessary to answer the questions as posed .. pfffff :p
 
Michael said:
Oh please SAM. Remember that one time you somehow concluded that your way of thinking is different that these mortal words simply couldn't convey the meaning necessary to answer the questions as posed .. pfffff :p
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I've since discovered it is true. Apparently atheists do not differentiate between absence of evidence and evidence of absence, hence the weird redefinitions of terms into meaningless constructs.
 
I've always said my position is that the possibility does exist that there is a Xenu or IPU or FSM or Allah or YWHA or Zeus... remember when we went around on that ride? You concluded space-time Qur'anic mechanics prevented language from sufficiently functioning at the level of us mere mortals :)
 
You do not believe your own claims, Michael.

Its evident from all your posts on Muslims.
 
We are talking about my belief in the possibly. I most certainly don't have to believe in Xenu to believe that the possibility of Xenu exists.

Agreed?
 
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