Our attitude concerning mockery of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon

[S.A.M.]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. No religion has the right to promote violence. Get that through your thick head, dumbass.

Imagine you see a vicious dog running towards a little girl. You have a knife in your pocket.

Do you

-make a movie about it?
-draw ridiculous cartoons?
-write to the local paper or RSPCA
-talk to the dog
-read him his rights
-fight him before he attacks the girl
-wait to see if he attacks a girl then fight him?

You can substitute the dog with "man with gun" and girl with your daughter and then tell me what you consider are the morally correct options available to you, Mr smartass.

And what is your rational and moral compass for determining the correctness of your chosen course of action.

 

[(Q)]

Giving permission for self-defense and then giving strict teachings about negotiations is not the same as promoting violence. And no, not going to stop to your level here and if youre interested in why self-defense is not promoting violence, there are many discussions and essays you can find via google. Have fun.

Religion should never have anything to do with self-defense, violence, war, whatever you want to call it. Religions are about gods, not about prescribing war.

Try thinking about that instead of regurgitating scriptural nonsense.

 

[(Q)]

Imagine you see a vicious dog running towards a little girl. You have a knife in your pocket.

And what is your rational and moral compass for determining the correctness of your chosen course of action.

Sam, don't be another idiot. You can create every scenario you want, but the bottom line is that religion should have nothing to do with prescribing violence or war.

Try thinking about instead of providing rhetoric.

 

[C1ay]

There is NEVER a valid reason to kill someone for drawing a cartoon. There is NEVER a valid reason to get on a bus full of innocent civilians with a bomb vest and killing everyone on board. There is NEVER a valid reason to fly planes into buildings to kill thousands of innocent people. There is NEVER a valid reason to kill someone for naming a teddy bear after one of their students. And yet the followers of Islam seem to act like these are all perfectly fine reasons to kill people.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam, don't be another idiot. You can create every scenario you want, but the bottom line is that religion should have nothing to do with prescribing violence or war.

In your idea about religion perhaps. But if you are a parent, would you bring up your child with the notion that violence is always wrong or would you also teach your child how to defend himself or herself for self defense in case of attack?

According to me, knowing how and when to use force is as important as knowing how and when not to. Anything else is unrealistic.

Theism is about gods, religion is a set of beliefs and practices and have everything to do with day to day life.

You did not answer the question btw. I want to know what is your response and what moral compass is your justification for it.

There is NEVER a valid reason to kill someone for drawing a cartoon. There is NEVER a valid reason to get on a bus full of innocent civilians with a bomb vest and killing everyone on board. There is NEVER a valid reason to fly planes into buildings to kill thousands of innocent people. There is NEVER a valid reason to kill someone for naming a teddy bear after one of their students. And yet the followers of Islam seem to act like these are all perfectly fine reasons to kill people.

If you see things through your prism perhaps. The fact that the west has been incarcerating, torturing and killing Muslims for the last seven years in the hundreds of thousands and using religion as a tool to demonise them is incidental.

 

[C1ay]

There is NEVER a valid reason to kill someone for drawing a cartoon. There is NEVER a valid reason to get on a bus full of innocent civilians with a bomb vest and killing everyone on board. There is NEVER a valid reason to fly planes into buildings to kill thousands of innocent people. There is NEVER a valid reason to kill someone for naming a teddy bear after one of their students. And yet the followers of Islam seem to act like these are all perfectly fine reasons to kill people.

If you see things through your prism perhaps. The fact that the west has been incarcerating, torturing and killing Muslims for the last seven years in the hundreds of thousands and using religion as a tool to demonise them is incidental.

And there we have it. Because of Iraq S.A.M. thinks it is OK to kill people for riding a bus, drawing cartoons, naming a teddy bear, etc.. You're quite despicable.

 

[S.A.M.]

And there we have it. Because of Iraq S.A.M. thinks it is OK to kill people for riding a bus, drawing cartoons, naming a teddy bear, etc.. You're quite despicable.

No because of Iraq/Afghanistan and its consequences, many Muslims feel they are being targeted only for their religion.

And in many cases, they are.

The key message of the report is that "in the aftermath of 9/11, the social climate facing Muslims has deteriorated in the countries covered by this report […] pre-exiting prejudice and discriminations against Muslims have been reinforced. The xenophobic prejudice against Muslims has resulted in attacks on Muslims in the streets and other public spaces.

Although the attacks have involved mainly verbal abuse, cases of physical violence and vandalism have been registered as well. Many attacks have never been reported to the police because victims lacked confidence that police would deal with their cases.

The report states that in some countries, it has become more "legitimate" to openly express hostility and to use intolerant language against Muslims.

The French far-right Front National Party argues that the ethics of Islam are not compatible with values of French civilisation. (Party's leader earned a conviction in April 2004 for inciting racial hatred in a newspaper article.)

The far-right Danish People's Party is accusing Muslims of undermining democratic values and promoting violence. The murdered populist Pim Fortuyn of the Netherlands used to talk about the new Cold War against Muslims.

Unfortunately, some representatives of democratic parties and even acting governments occasionally repeated the far-right rhetoric of the Italian Liga Nord, the German Republikaner and NPD, the Belgian Vlaams Blok, the Austrian FPÖ etc. The report recalls anti-Muslim statements by leading democratic politicians: for example, the statement made by the Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi "Western civilisation is superior to Islamic civilisation" and the suggested concept of "leading culture/Leitkultur" by the German CDU.

The integration minister of the Belgian Flemish region indicated in January 2005 that mosques have to use the Dutch language, show tolerance for women and homosexuals and proscribe the preaching of extremist ideas. These conditions do not apply to other religious communities.

http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-298/i.html

Thats a lot of pent up hostility right there, just waiting match to tinder.

 

[Arsalan]

Religion should never have anything to do with self-defense, violence, war, whatever you want to call it. Religions are about gods, not about prescribing war.

Try thinking about that instead of regurgitating scriptural nonsense.

Unfortunately for you Islam is a religion and a lifestyle and it deals with every aspect that may arise. Naturally conflicts between humans will take place. And Islam would not be a complete, perfect religion and lifestyle if it did not deal with eveything, including conflicts. Your criteria as to what a perfect religion and lifestyle may or may not conain is irrelevant. Maybe you should try to get that through your head before regurgitating the same tired nonsense youve been at for a day and provide proof that Muslims claimed persecution and selfdefense to wage aggressive wars and whether they had any right to claim that or not.

 

[Arsalan]

There is NEVER a valid reason to kill someone for drawing a cartoon. There is NEVER a valid reason to get on a bus full of innocent civilians with a bomb vest and killing everyone on board. There is NEVER a valid reason to fly planes into buildings to kill thousands of innocent people. There is NEVER a valid reason to kill someone for naming a teddy bear after one of their students. And yet the followers of Islam seem to act like these are all perfectly fine reasons to kill people.

Ofcourse there isnt. Who said there was? :shrug: Have you even been reading what weve been saying? Weve been talking about self-defense seeing as how Q has now noticed that Islam indeed does not allow for aggressive wars or conquest. And if you had read what id posted, youd see tonnes of fatwas against terrorists and denouncements of terrorism and 9/11 by Muslims themselves and how those terrorists did unislamic things. But then, for that youd have to get your head out of ur ass for at least a couple of minutes...

 

[C1ay]

I see denunciation from you Arsalan but S.A.M. keeps bringing up points to justify these killings. We can only assume that he approves of such measures.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Imagine you see a vicious dog running towards a little girl. You have a knife in your pocket.

Do you

-make a movie about it?
-draw ridiculous cartoons?
-write to the local paper or RSPCA
-talk to the dog
-read him his rights
-fight him before he attacks the girl
-wait to see if he attacks a girl then fight him?

You can substitute the dog with "man with gun" and girl with your daughter and then tell me what you consider are the morally correct options available to you, Mr smartass.

And what is your rational and moral compass for determining the correctness of your chosen course of action.

Well first off, I would expect that God would probably do absolutely nothing at all to help this girl so if I use Him as my moral compass and guide, I suppose that means that morally I should do nothing to help her, as well.

Perhaps then, under these circumstances my own thoughts of compassion and my own desire to help this girl could be regarded as immoral, a sin, and against the apparent will of God. After all I probably should not interfere with the freewill of this girl or even the dog if God Himself will not do this either, should I? I certainly have no authority to go against the will of God and help her, do I?

In addition, most of the "sacred" scriptures eventually end up teaching that pain and suffering is good for the soul and can even help bring a person to salvation. This again makes my thoughts of compassion and desire to help her an evil thing, for if I help her I might end up preventing what could have resulted in her "salvation". So I clearly cannot help her on this basis either!

Why does it have to be so complicated anyway?

Disregarding all of the above as basically insanity... ...and with God apparently failing as a model (by example) for moral behavior...

I would try to help this girl in any way that I could, simply because of love for her, because I know it is right to do so.

 

[Arsalan]

I see denunciation from you Arsalan but S.A.M. keeps bringing up points to justify these killings. We can only assume that he approves of such measures.

Shes not justifiying killing innocent people. Shes merely portraying the side of the argumen so often lost by people like you. The argument that there is more to these actions than merely religion.

 

[Arsalan]

Well first off, I would expect that God would probably do absolutely nothing at all to help this girl so if I use Him as my moral compass and guide, I suppose that means that morally I should do nothing to help her, as well.

Perhaps then, under these circumstances my own thoughts of compassion and my own desire to help this girl could be regarded as immoral, a sin, and against the apparent will of God. After all I probably should not interfere with the freewill of this girl or even the dog if God Himself will not do this either, should I? I certainly have no authority to go against the will of God and help her, do I?

That would be a valid point if Islam did not teach to protect people, especially children and women, from any danger they may be in. Its called love and compassion for other humans and is widely found in Islamic religious teachings.

In addition, most of the "sacred" scriptures eventually end up teaching that pain and suffering is good for the soul and can even help bring a person to salvation. This again makes my thoughts of compassion and desire to help her an evil thing, for if I help her I might end up preventing what could have resulted in her "salvation". So I clearly cannot help her on this basis either!

Thats the kind of punishment which you cannot do something about. Islam teaches that if you can do something about your curren situation then do it, but dont transgress.

 

[nova900]

Your criteria as to what a perfect religion and lifestyle may or may not conain is irrelevant.

But does not each individual base the label "perfect religion" on their own personal criteria? What may seem perfect to one person may not seem so to another.

 

[(Q)]

Unfortunately for you Islam is a religion and a lifestyle and it deals with every aspect that may arise.

That is actually unfortunate for all non-Muslims, especially the fact that your religion prescribes the violence and war Muslims are involved or initiate.

Naturally conflicts between humans will take place.

Yes, and we attempt NOT to use violence to solve those conflicts. Certainly, it would great folly to turn to religion in this regard.

And Islam would not be a complete, perfect religion and lifestyle if it did not deal with eveything, including conflicts.

Your propaganda and fabrications don't fly.

Your criteria as to what a perfect religion and lifestyle may or may not conain is irrelevant.

Yes, it is irrelevant to the brainwashed, indoctrinated cultist.

 

[(Q)]

In your idea about religion perhaps. But if you are a parent, would you bring up your child with the notion that violence is always wrong or would you also teach your child how to defend himself or herself for self defense in case of attack?

Whatever I teach my children, it would never be reflected from the Abrahamist cult, or any other cult.

According to me, knowing how and when to use force is as important as knowing how and when not to. Anything else is unrealistic.

You have a brain, don't you? Use it.

Theism is about gods, religion is a set of beliefs and practices and have everything to do with day to day life.

That is the contention of all thiests, who are under the delusion their religion IS that of day to day life.

You did not answer the question btw. I want to know what is your response and what moral compass is your justification for it.

You and other theists make the same critical error, that of assuming morals have anything to do with cults.

If you see things through your prism perhaps. The fact that the west has been incarcerating, torturing and killing Muslims for the last seven years in the hundreds of thousands and using religion as a tool to demonise them is incidental.

Troll warning in effect!

 

[S.A.M.]

Whatever I teach my children, it would never be reflected from the Abrahamist cult, or any other cult.

Then I fear what you will teach them, considering your own ideas and values are based on hatred of religion and theists.

 

[(Q)]

Then I fear what you will teach them, considering your own ideas and values are based on hatred of religion and theists.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I despise religions/cults. I have nothing against people.

Will you teach your children gods, angels and demons exist?
Will you teach your children the moon was split in half?
Why would lie to your children, Sam?

 

[S.A.M.]

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I despise religions/cults. I have nothing against people.

We've already demolished that myth.

What a load of crap.

Those fairy tale creatures are mocked, not because they are fairy tale creatures, but the fact that YOU believe in them. It is YOU who is being mocked.

Holding fairy tale creatures in high esteem and treating them as your mother or father certainly does expect at the very least, mockery.

Will you teach your children gods, angels and demons exist?
Will you teach your children the moon was split in half?
Why would lie to your children, Sam?

I would teach them what my parents taught me.

That tolerance and compassion is necessary for a healthy society.

 

[(Q)]

I would teach them what my parents taught me.

I didn't know stupidity and gullibility could be taught. You learn something new every day.