Other Worlds and Creationism

Y

Yazdajerd

Behold... The Bringer of Light
Registered Senior Member
Although the title would imply either a scientifical arguement or a paranormal issue, I did want to raise it as a religious one.

Now, frankly, alomost all evolutionists are athiests or gnostics...... all creationists are religious. Hence I find the issue applying to a religious one.

The other day on Discovery channel, there was a program about "if life existed elsewere in the cosmos"...........

One of the astronomists claimed that the existance of other "intelligent" life-forms on other distant planets would finally answer the question of evolutionism versus creationism.........

Irrespective to what I think, I don't see how the question of the existance of other life on other planets would eliminate creationism.........

Suppose we were to assume God exists, and he created this Earth and the life on it............ wouldn't it be possible for God to create another planet with other life on it?? :bugeye:

I, for one, believe in God and consider myself religious, and I also strongly think that other "capable of logical thinking" life forms do exist on other planets ((PS: this doesn't mean I beleive in the paranormal encouters with "Aliens", because I don't........ but that is another issue))

To us Shi'ites a saying was quoted from Imam Ali that he was asked about the planets in the heavens, he replied: "They are cities like the ones on Earth". So to me, finding those life forms would strengthen that belief not falsefy it. :D

So, what do you think??
 
I do not discount life on other planets, and I do not percieve it contrary to theological findings.
However there are some things to consider:

1) If no life were found this would not satisfy Evolutionist/non-religionists. The Universe is so huge they would say that we have not looked at all possibilities.
2) If there were intelligent life, it would be humanlike, given that the intellect of Man is a spiritual gift of God. If they were intelligent they would also be religious, and probably smart enough to disprove the theory of Evolution once and for all. I believe that this is the ironic situation that will eventually unfold.
3) Angelic life is also extraterrestrial, and although they are invisible, we know of their existance and have already communicated with them in the old testament. Their technology is so advanced they dont need instruments such as radios. Then can travel faster than the speed of light. They have told us about the Majestic and Holy God that dwells beyond the stars. They also warned us about the hostile ETs, ie, the fallen angels.
 
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Could god have created the process of evolution?

Yazdajerd said:
wouldn't it be possible for God to create another planet with other life on it??
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a great prophet once said "in my fathers house there are many mansions".
 
Lawdog said:
They also warned us about the hostile ETs, ie, the fallen angels.
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Yeah, right. WE ARE THE FALLEN ANGELS! The so called Anakim (sons of Anak, the 'giant' humans - also called the Sons of God and Nephilim etcetcetc)
 
Lawdog said:
1) If no life were found this would not satisfy Evolutionist/non-religionists. The Universe is so huge they would say that we have not looked at all possibilities.
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Of course it wouldn't satisfy us as to the validity or non-validity of evolution or to the existence of God.
Even if the entire Universe was observed and we were the only life forms found, all it would show was that we are unique in that respect.
Nothing else could logically be read in to it, nor should it.
A lack of evidence for the existence of one thing is NOT evidence for the existence of another.



Lawdog said:
2) If there were intelligent life, it would be humanlike, given that the intellect of Man is a spiritual gift of God. If they were intelligent they would also be religious, and probably smart enough to disprove the theory of Evolution once and for all. I believe that this is the ironic situation that will eventually unfold.
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LOL!!
No offence, but do you actually read what you write?


Lawdog said:
3) Angelic life is also extraterrestrial, and although they are invisible, we know of their existance and have already communicated with them in the old testament. Their technology is so advanced they dont need instruments such as radios. Then can travel faster than the speed of light. They have told us about the Majestic and Holy God that dwells beyond the stars. They also warned us about the hostile ETs, ie, the fallen angels.
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ROTFLMFAO!! It just gets better and better.
Please don't ever leave this site - I haven't had such a good laugh in ages!! :D
 
Sarkus said:
Of course it wouldn't satisfy us as to the validity or non-validity of evolution or to the existence of God.
Even if the entire Universe was observed and we were the only life forms found, all it would show was that we are unique in that respect.
Nothing else could logically be read in to it, nor should it.
A lack of evidence for the existence of one thing is NOT evidence for the existence of another.
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Agreed, and I add that were intelligent life found,
Atheistic Scientists and Evolutionists would consider it a victory
(inappropriately by your own decree above) for their
own philosophic and (commonly unscientific) views. In the same way, Creationists and proponents of Intelligent Design should not consider
the lack of other intelligent life (or other life) support for
their philosophic and theological views.
However, since finding life, primordial or otherwise, does not
prove first cause, they would still have to answer the question: where did
the alien life derive from.

Sarkus,
Since you laugh and mock my propositions,
revealing little ability to counter them,
I suppose answering with counter
arguments would be unproductive.
However, consider that your view
appears equally absurd to those who believe.
 
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Well there must be other life.. Some Martians, Jupiterians, and so on, otherwise why did god make them all? He had a cosmic game of billiards planned or what? But I agree with Lawdog - everything's invisible, but it does exist.. honest guv.
 
SnakeLord, I do not know what your last statement implied, but here is my reasoning that invisible beings exist:

1) Not all that exists is sensible, although it may be indirectly discerned by the senses: take for example mathematic axioms. Not discernible in themselves by the senses. They are intellective realities and laws, the truths of which are discernible by the intellect, which itself is not visible.

2) Since a given intellect is not a power discernible by the senses directly, it likely does not need a physical vessel. One could propose that there exists more advanced intellects than the human, therefore the most advanced intellects would likely not require physical bodies.
 
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lawdog said:
Not all that exists is sensible,
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exactly, else there would be no xians.
lawdog said:
although it may be indirectly discerned by the senses:
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absolute rubbish, if it indirectly or directly effects the senses it cant be invisible.
 
(I think the line should be;
Not all that exists has an effect on our 5 primary senses. )

But the main point I would like to make is that, surely finding life on other planets in the universe would make spontaneous and random evolution of life less probable?

It could happen once yes, but if we say found intellifgent life on say hundreds of planets in the future, this can hardly be called a random and spontaneous event.
 
audible said:
exactly, else there would be no xians.
absolute rubbish, if it indirectly or directly effects the senses it cant be invisible.
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audible, sound is not visible!
thought! there are others im sure things which are sensed by one sense but missed by others, scent! could there possibly be things that exist that are not sensed by any of the feeble five?
 
a tree is not visible to a blind man, but it's still effects his other four senses.
you can still hear sound, or is'nt hearing one of the senses.
 
audible said:
exactly, else there would be no xians.
absolute rubbish, if it indirectly or directly effects the senses it cant be invisible.
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Wrong. The written mathematic equation for instance is not direct visible evidence of a mathematic truth, but a symbolic demonstration of a truth. The truth itself which cannot be sensed by the five senses, but only comprehended by means of written spacial symbols.
 
Lawdog said:
The written mathematic equation for instance is not direct visible evidence of a mathematic truth,
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but it's indirect, firstly in the subjective mind, as is all things, until it can be shown to be true by the objective mind.otherwise it remains in the realms of the imagination.
lawdog said:
but a symbolic demonstration of a truth. The truth itself which cannot be sensed by the five senses, but only comprehended by means of written spacial symbols.
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by your subjective mind, personally to you only, if it is written anywhere other than your subjective mind then it is solid.
 
audible said:
a tree is not visible to a blind man, but it's still effects his other four senses.
you can still hear sound, or is'nt hearing one of the senses.
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i think you missed the point or you ignored it for arguments sake.

there are things that exist which are not tangible to all of the senses, do you agree? sound is a great example cause you cant smell it you cant taste ityou cant see it with the anked eye. my point is there are things that are not directly percievible by our five senses.
 
ellion said:
there are things that exist which are not tangible to all of the senses, do you agree? sound is a great example cause you cant smell it you cant taste it you cant see it with the naked eye.
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yes it only effects, two senses.
ellion said:
my point is there are things that are not directly percievible by our five senses.
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one instant of this would'nt go amiss, could you produce one instant of something, that does not effect the five sense. else it is only subjective, therefore your own personal beliefs, and imaginings.
james randi will pay a million to anybody who can, I would also if I could afford it.
 
Lawdog said:
SnakeLord, I do not know what your last statement implied, but here is my reasoning that invisible beings exist:

1) Not all that exists is sensible, although it may be indirectly discerned by the senses: take for example mathematic axioms. Not discernible in themselves by the senses. They are intellective realities and laws, the truths of which are discernible by the intellect, which itself is not visible

2) Since a given intellect is not a power discernible by the senses directly, it likely does not need a physical vessel. One could propose that there exists more advanced intellects than the human therefore the most advanced intellects would likely not require physical bodies.
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To use mathematics as a reasoning for the existence of invisible beings is hilariously fallacious (non-sequitor).

Intellect requires a physical vessel.
Intellect is a by-product of the physical vessel - and in the case of all animals we know it is the by-product of a very specific part of the overall body.


And Ellion - if something is missed by ALL of our "feeble" five senses then it is deemed and defined as abstract.
It can thus only exist in the intellect - such as maths, logic, beauty etc.
To exist outside the intellect it HAS to be visible to at least one of the senses (albeit that it may exist outside the actual range of our own senses - e.g. most EM waves, ultra-sonics etc.)
And I think Audible was saying "exist" as in "non-abstract existence".
Yes, thoughts exist - but these are abstract.
 
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