Original Sin?

[786]

Please answer the following questions.

What is "original sin"?
Who is responsible for the "original sin"? (Adam or Eve)
Did the whole mankind inherit this sin? (is everyone born with a sin?)
(has everyone sinned, even a baby who died after 1 minute of birth?)
Why did we inherit it?

Please provide your reference through the Bible (Chaper:Verse)

 

[Godless]

What is "original sin"?

This is silly you already know the answer!.

Who is responsible for the "original sin"? (Adam or Eve)

Technically neither is quilty only god is quilty, because "it" god already knew the outcome, so god was only playing games with two innocent ignorant beigns whom got offered a better deal, by satan, to be just like gods themselves and know good from evil.

Did the whole mankind inherit this sin? (is everyone born with a sin?)

That's the assumption accordingly to scriptures, however to accept such an assuption is a slap at justice, a slap at morality, and an insult to logic.

(has everyone sinned, even a baby who died after 1 minute of birth?)

Accordingly to scriptures, if your parents did the nasty your born in sin! get it? this is why it's a slap on justice, morality and an insult to logic!!!.

Why did we inherit it?

Because what they are trying to tell ya, in the scriptures is "if you enjoy life, and procreate, it's a sin" thus it's a slap to justice, morality, and an insult to logic.

How else is one to procreate? and why is there such an enphasis on human pleasure?.

An example of what I'm talking about!.
http://ellensplace.net/ar_pboy.html


RAND: The important word in the statement you quoted is "fundamental." Fundamental guilt does not mean the ability to judge one's own actions and regret a wrong action, if one commits it. Fundamental guilt means that man is evil and guilty by nature.

PLAYBOY: You mean original sin?

RAND: Exactly. It is the concept of original sin that my heroine, or I, or any Objectivist, is incapable of accepting or of ever experiencing emotionally. It is the concept of original sin that negates morality. If man is guilty by nature, he has no choice about it. If he has no choice, the issue does not belong in the field of morality. Morality pertains only to the sphere of man's free will -- only to those actions which are open to his choice. To consider man guilty by nature is a contradiction in terms. My heroine would be capable of experiencing guilt about a specific action. Only, being a woman of high moral stature and self-esteem, she would see to it that she never earned any guilt by her actions. She would act in a totally moral manner and, therefore, would not accept an unearned guilt.

Here take a look here too! http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/galt.htm

Godless.

 

[Enigma'07]

What is "original sin"?

Original sin is when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil knowing that God had commanded him not to

Genesis 2:19
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Genesis 3:6
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make {one} wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

I'm not a scholar, but from my understanding, original sin is not a term found in the Bible, but one that scholars came up with to describe how sin first entered the world. Before Adam and Eve ate, there was no sin in the world, and so, it was original, ei. the first sin.

Who is responsible for the "original sin"? (Adam or Eve)

I believe, from what I've read and what I've heard, sin entered the world through one man, Adam.

Romans 5:12-14
12 Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

I've also heard Jesus refered to as the second Adam, because He came perfect, just as Adam had.

Did the whole mankind inherit this sin? (is everyone born with a sin?)
(has everyone sinned, even a baby who died after 1 minute of birth?)

Romans 5:18-19
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

John 8:44-47
44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

Every single person is born a sinner. But I believe that a baby will not burn in hell if it dies because there is this thing called the age of accountability. This basically says that a person isn't held responsible for trusting Christ until they come to an age were they hear the Gospel an either choose, fully understanding, to live for Christ or live for the devil. This age isn't an exact time, it is differant for everyperson. God will show mercy to those that die before they reach that age. Bear with me as I'm still looking for the verse that mentions it.

Why did we inherit it?

Man inherrited a 'sin nature', that is the dendancy to sin. Think about it, a child is not taught how to lie or be disrespectful, he knows those things one his own. What he must be taught is that it is wrong to lie and wrong to bedisrespectful and there are concequinses for such things.

Romans 3:9-18
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

People aren't taught such things, they do them on there own.

Does this help, or did I confuse you? Feel free to PM me.

 

[786]

I knew everything you said. But I wanted to know what the people believe. I want others to answer this question. Then I will share my comments. Thank You for your reply. It is much appreciated. I will PM you when I share my comments so you can read what I have to say about this topic.

 

[Adstar]

"Please answer the following questions.

What is "original sin"?"

I think the original sin has been covered by Enigma'07 it was the Sin that caused mankind to come to the knowledge of Good and Evil.

Who is responsible for the "original sin"? (Adam or Eve)

Adam. For the man has authority over the woman. Adam had authority over eve and did not seek to restrain her in taking of the fruit, He did not call out to God to intervene.

Did the whole mankind inherit this sin? (is everyone born with a sin?)
(has everyone sinned, even a baby who died after 1 minute of birth?)
Why did we inherit it?


There is an age of innocence what that time period is God knows but yes eventually if one lives long enough then they will sin. So it is inherited in a way but it is like a dormant gene that is activated upon reaching a certain age.

Some "christians" believe that babies are born sinners and that even babies that die just 1 minute after birth are condemned to hell because they have not accepted Jesus as savor i disagree with them strongly. For God Himself through scriptures teaches us that there is an age of innocents where the little ones are still perfect.

In the Bibles story of the Exodus it tells that when the Jews came to the borders of the promised Land after being freed from Egypt they sent in spies to carry out a reconocence of the land and bring back a report of the land to the jews. One group brought back a bad report of the Land, but two men (Caleb and Joshua) brought back a good report and gave true witness to the people about the promised land. Moses talks of this time in Deuteronomy.


Deuteronomy 1
22"And every one of you came near to me and said, "Let us send men before us, and let them search out the land for us, and bring back word to us of the way by which we should go up, and of the cities into which we shall come.'
23"The plan pleased me well; so I took twelve of your men, one man from each tribe. 24And they departed and went up into the mountains, and came to the Valley of Eshcol, and spied it out. 25They also took some of the fruit of the land in their hands and brought it down to us; and they brought back word to us, saying, "It is a good land which the LORD our God is giving us.'
26"Nevertheless you would not go up, but rebelled against the command of the LORD your God; 27and you complained in your tents, and said, "Because the LORD hates us, He has brought us out of the land of Egypt to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us. 28Where can we go up? Our brethren have discouraged our hearts, saying, "The people are greater and taller than we; the cities are great and fortified up to heaven; moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakim there."'
29"Then I said to you, "Do not be terrified, or afraid of them. 30The LORD your God, who goes before you, He will fight for you, according to all He did for you in Egypt before your eyes, 31and in the wilderness where you saw how the LORD your God carried you, as a man carries his son, in all the way that you went until you came to this place.' 32Yet, for all that, you did not believe the LORD your God, 33who went in the way before you to search out a place for you to pitch your tents, to show you the way you should go, in the fire by night and in the cloud by day.


The Penalty for Israel's Rebellion
34 "And the LORD heard the sound of your words, and was angry, and took an oath, saying, 35"Surely not one of these men of this evil generation shall see that good land of which I swore to give to your fathers, 36except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and his children I am giving the land on which he walked, because he wholly followed the LORD.' 37The LORD was also angry with me for your sakes, saying, "Even you shall not go in there. 38Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall go in there. Encourage him, for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
39"Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. 40But as for you, turn and take your journey into the wilderness by the Way of the Red Sea.'


So God himself described the little ones thus: who today have no knowledge of good and evil, Now what did the forbidden fruit that Adam and eve eat give the access to? The Knowledge of Good and Evil of course. And what does God say about the Little ones "have no knowledge of good and evil"

The Jews where forced to wander in the desert/wilderness for 40 years so that the guilty generation that refused to enter into the promised land would die so that their childeren who where innocent at the time of the rebellion against Gods will could enter into the promised land.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[§outh§tar]

@ Adstar

I must TOTALLY disagree with your exegesis of the aforementioned texts in MUCHO vehemence.

It is commonly understood that the children referred to those under the age of 20, thereby discrediting your assertion foremostly.

SECONDLY, we must maintain, upon these grounds, that these in question were not partakers of the sins of their fathers and were therefore spared.

Therefore it is NO concrete justification of the fictional "age of accountability", the heresy of heresies that has permeated Christiandom in a futile attempt at justification.

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Therefore it is NO concrete justification of the fictional "age of accountability", the heresy of heresies that has permeated Christiandom in a futile attempt at justification.

There "is NO concrete justification" for the entire Adam & Eve fable.

 

[Adstar]

well §outh§tar you can follow your theological teachings of the man calvin, i will listen to the very word of God For. He said it himself

"who today have no knowledge of good and evil"

As i said before i am not a calvanist.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[surenderer]

[

It is commonly understood that the children referred to those under the age of 20, thereby discrediting your assertion foremostly.

Where does it say this in the Bible? I think that is made up to justify 2 Kings 2:23-24 but i could be wrong please give the verses that verify this thnx ...peace

 

[Cyperium]

Please answer the following questions.

What is "original sin"?
Who is responsible for the "original sin"? (Adam or Eve)
Did the whole mankind inherit this sin? (is everyone born with a sin?)
(has everyone sinned, even a baby who died after 1 minute of birth?)
Why did we inherit it?

Please provide your reference through the Bible (Chaper:Verse)

The original sin is the disobeyence commited by Eve when she were fooled by the serpent.

A sidenote here: A serpent has a split-tounge and may be the reason why it's used as a image - but I don't know, just my own interpretation...

Both Adam and Eve is responsible, Eve for eating the fruit and giving it to Adam, Adam for eating the fruit.

Mankind inhereted the sin, because Adam and Eve were the first humans. You could say that mankind has a tendency to sin (which is what we inhereted). The fruit of sin is death.

Adam and Eve were the first humans, therefor all humans inhereted the original sin.

I haven't included references, this is from memory and I won't search through the entire Bible to find the references. If there are questions about a certain statement, then let me know and I'll see if I can find it in the Bible.

 

[786]

Why is there so much disagreement between you people. One says Adam is responsible, another says that both Adam and Eve. What is the truth?

 

[surenderer]

How does this sound?......God conceived an ingenious plan. It is not clear as to whether he consulted his ‘Son’ or if they both conceived the plan simultaneously or even if it was entirely the idea of the ‘Son’, and then accepted by God the Father. The features of this plan unfolded at the time of Christ as follows. Two thousand years ago the ‘Son of God’, who literally shared eternity with Him, was born to a human mother. As the ‘Son of God’, he combined within him the perfect traits of a human being as well as those of God the Father. Next we are told that a pious and chaste lady by the name of Mary was chosen to be the mother of the ‘Son of God’. She conceived Jesus in partnership with God. In that respect, being a literal ‘Son of God’, Jesus was born without sin, yet somehow he retained his human character and entity. Thus he volunteered himself to take the burden of the entire sin of those of mankind who would believe in him and accept him as their savior. By this clever device, it is claimed; God did not have to compromise His eternal attribute of absolute justice.

Remember that according to this modus operandi, man would not go unpunished, however sinful he may be. God would still be able to exact retribution from the sinful without compromising His sense of justice. The only difference between this and the previous position, which was responsible for this dramatic change, is the fact that it would be Jesus who would be punished and not the sinful sons and daughters of Adam. It would be the sacrifice of Jesus, which would ultimately be instrumental in atoning for the sins of the children of Adam.

However strange and bizarre this logic may seem to be, this is exactly what is professed to have happened. Jesus volunteered himself and was consequently punished for the sins he had never committed.

But please explain these verses to me if Jesus(pbuh) was really God:


"Not everyone who says to me, ‘lord, lord’, shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the Will of My Father in Heaven” (Matthew 7:21)

“And the Father himself, which hath sent me, bore witness of me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape” (John 5:37)

“And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18)

“And I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.” (John 8:50)

“ Jesus answered them and said, “my doctrines are not mine, but His who sent me” (John 7:16)

“he who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me” (John 14:24)

“For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak” (John 12:49)

“Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the Will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work” (John 4:34)

“For I have come down from Heaven(actally Jesus coming down from Heaven contradicts the Bible), not to do my own will, but the Will of Him who sent me” (John 6:38)


“I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my own will but the Will of the Father who sent me” (John 5:30)

“I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a Messenger greater than the One who sent him” (John 13:16)

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

“Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God(the Qur'an also says that Jesus is a Spirit proceeding from God, but it doesn't mean he is uncreated); I came not of my own accord, but His who sent me” (John 8:42)

“To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father” (Matthew 20:23)

“So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me” (John 7:16)



Peace

 

[786]

Brother Surrender, these points are good, but they will lead the thread to a different topic. Please let them answer my questions first.

After reading your answers, I have noticed that you people disagree, even in the most obvious question. Here is what I found.

1. Some believe that Adam is responsible of the original sin, and some say both are responsible.

What is the truth? Who is really responsible?

And let me get this clear. So every inherited the sin of Adam.(or whoever commited it)

 

[§outh§tar]

well §outh§tar you can follow your theological teachings of the man calvin, i will listen to the very word of God For. He said it himself

"who today have no knowledge of good and evil"

As i said before i am not a calvanist.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

And now you are accusing me of being a Calvinist?

Don't worry, I saw through the smiley..

I only gave you the meaning of the text.

"Any under the age of 20".

You can choose to ignore it and therefore illogically imply that they would give up their babies to Caleb to go into the city...

 

[§outh§tar]

http://www.christiancourier.com/archives/originalSin.htm

Take a look here 786

 

[spidergoat]

Original sin is when Christianity institutionalized guilt as a virtue.

 

[§outh§tar]

Would you rather it be a vice?

 

[Adstar]

: "they would give up their babies to Caleb to go into the city..."????????????? what are you talking about where did i say anything about them giving their childeren up to Caleb????????? Can anyone else explain to me what Southstar is talking about???

All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Adstar]

Brother Surrender, these points are good, but they will lead the thread to a different topic. Please let them answer my questions first.

After reading your answers, I have noticed that you people disagree, even in the most obvious question. Here is what I found.

1. Some believe that Adam is responsible of the original sin, and some say both are responsible.

What is the truth? Who is really responsible?

And let me get this clear. So every inherited the sin of Adam.(or whoever commited it)

One of the biggest misunderstandings most muslims and well most people in the world live with is that Everyone who says "i am a christian" all believe the same thing and belong to the same faith. 786 this is not the way it is. To say that there are over 1000 different religions that claim to be The Christian faith would not be a false saying. Its up to you 786 to read the answers and read the supporting scriptures for the answers and decide what is the true biblical answer.

Matthew 7
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits.

Few find the true way few.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Original sin is when Christianity institutionalized guilt as a virtue.

To the guilty remorse is a virtue. Only the proud hate remorse.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days