Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
Let me offer this:
If you think that you can define god, then the god that you can define is not "GOD"
Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, ever lasting.
Let me offer this:
If you think that you can define god, then the god that you can define is not "GOD"
imhoHence the collective enterprise we call a church.
Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, ever lasting.
Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, ever lasting.
Let me offer this:
If you think that you can define god, then the god that you can define is not "GOD"
Jan Ardena said:I think you're being harsh.
I wrote a response to you a while back, and you didn't reply.
Either it was not worthy of a response, or you simply overlooked it.
Maybe you can explain what you find nonsensical about my responses .
Seattle said:It's just not productive is it?
Jan,
Definitions are fine if understood in context. 'Without God' if taken literally will not convey any meaning to an atheist. He can vehemently come forward and argue on this, like happening here. So best thing would be to define what it means to be 'with and without God'.
You can't even answer a straightforward question?
Brilliant.
I'll give it a try in coming days, Jan. Look, I just think you're pushing a degree too specific; I think you disagree, but beyond that your posts remain, as they always have been, difficult to decipher.
Honestly, I don't understand what it is you want of the word theism, but you're insisting on erasing a basic and necessary classification, a component within a functional hierarchy of definitions. If "red" is a god and Pantone Red 032 is God, what is "color"? You're simply trying to push "theism" one degree too specific, as if "color" must necessarily mean "red", or some such; it's a loose analogy. I tried a version of that explanation before↑, and it's not so much a question of worthy, but, rather, I still have no idea what you think you're on about↑.
Without God means that one doesn't know God not that God doesn't exist. True enough. That's just word play however. Without ghosts means that one doesn't know ghosts and not that ghosts don't exist.Maybe you're thinking too much.
Why go on about existence of God, when the literal meanings do not have 'existence' within them?
How could God possibly exist to an atheist (a person without God)?
How can existence be the foundation of the terms theism and atheism?
'Without God' means God does not exist. Without sight means one cannot see.
Without hearing means one cannot hear, not that hearing doesn't exist.
I am simply using the correct definition of the words, without the designer invocation.
What is so hard to understand?
jan.
You aren't simply using the correct definition of the words. You're playing with them. If God just is so be it. You can't get from there to a directive to spread the word. Now you've added a religion of some sort. That's where Man comes in, or rather Jan.
Definitions aren't arguments. Asserting special knowledge isn't an argument. I don't believe you. If what you say is true, then no one would go from being with God to being without God, and that happens all the time.Firstly, there is no word that translates as 'with God'.
There is 'God', and there is 'without God.
The word (atheist) literally means 'without God (gods)'.
'Existence' is a quality that was added at some point (french revolution).
But how could we define it so that an atheist can comprehend it?
To be without God, is to be without anything, one is without.
If I am without sight, it means I cannot see.
If I am without God, then I cannot know God.
If I couldn't see, I wouldn't be able to explain what sight is.
If I was without God, I wouldn't be able to explain what God is.
Is that enough, or do you require more definition.
jan.
Of course. We can speak of ghosts someday soon I hope.I'm not spreading the word, just simply stating the foundation of the definitions.
jan.
Definitions aren't arguments. Asserting special knowledge isn't an argument. I don't believe you.
If what you say is true, then no one would go from being with God to being without God, and that happens all the time.
Of course. We can speak of ghosts someday soon I hope.
Of the atheists I socialize with offline, most just feel an indifference towards the existence of a higher power or God. They don't feel like they're without anything, they just don't care if there is an Anything. Many theists spend a lot of time trying to tell atheists how they feel ''about God,'' but for many, they are merely indifferent.
I don't think I can, any more than I can define other things I don't believe in.If you think that you can define god...