Oklahoma - Police kill 5 year-old child

What will bring justice? (click all that apply)

  • Civil award to family

    Votes: 10 43.5%

  • Prison time for pepretrator

    Votes: 11 47.8%

  • Nothing will bring justice

    Votes: 9 39.1%

  • Nothing should happen to the perpetrator - it was an honest mistake

    Votes: 3 13.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 17.4%
  • Total voters
    23
Baron Max said:

Well, it's the same with a car accident, ain't it? We're trained to drive properly and safely, yet there's a gazillion accidents every damned day. And many of those accidents are "easily prevented" ....like the redlight runners hitting a car and killing people. Accidents.
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Guns are designed to kill. When you figure out how to ride your gun to work every day, please let us know. I'm sure there many people who will be delighted.

EnterpriseD said:

(I actually find it almost as disturbing that CNN has a video link labelled "watch the tearful grandfather say the bullet should have hit him". How morbid is that?)
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Indeed. It's actually the sort of thing that, in the abstract, goes well with my sense of humor. For some reason, though, I didn't find it funny. Oh, well. It's the kind of soullessness we expect from CNN.
 
Tiassa said:
Guns are designed to kill. When you figure out how to ride your gun to work every day, please let us know. I'm sure there many people who will be delighted.



Indeed. It's actually the sort of thing that, in the abstract, goes well with my sense of humor. For some reason, though, I didn't find it funny. Oh, well. It's the kind of soullessness we expect from CNN.
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A vehicle is a bigger deadlier weapon. I can drive over a crowd of people and keep on going. With a gun, I have far less chance of hitting my target and eventually I'm gonna run out of bullets.

Its why cops are supposed to call off his speed chases.
 
I find that argument disingenuous

Orleander said:

A vehicle is a bigger deadlier weapon. I can drive over a crowd of people and keep on going. With a gun, I have far less chance of hitting my target and eventually I'm gonna run out of bullets.
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Great. You know, a fork is a deadly weapon. My point is that the car/gun analogy isn't quite fair because a car was not designed specifically for killing.

Ever see that episode of The Simpsons when Homer buys a gun? It put an end to the argument that "A gun is a tool". If you haven't seen it, there's a great scene where Homer wanders around the house using the gun to put out the lights. He uses the gun to turn off the television. His gun-toting buddies are horrified when he uses the gun to open a beer. If a gun is to be regarded as a toy for entertainment, then people shouldn't buy bullets that advertise their lethality. The truth of the matter is that guns are designed to kill.

Yes, cars can be dangerous. Next time you're in dense but swiftly moving traffic, take a moment to marvel at the fact that there aren't more collisions. After all, thousands of people moving tons of metal and glass at sixty miles per hour is, when you stop to think about it, rather impressive.

But cars aren't designed specifically for killing. Neither is silverware. Nor an extension cord, the hammer in my toolbox, the screwdriver that is next to it, the coaxial connecting my computer to the internet ....

"A vehicle is a bigger deadlier weapon"? I'm sorry, but that's just a ridiculous response.

It can be used as such, but you can't change the fact that a gun is designed specifically to kill.

And remember: fewer people object to requiring a driver's license than object to needing a license to prove one has demonstrated proficiency handling a gun. One would think that our police, at least, would understand the power of the instrument of death in their hands.
 
The reason this cannot be compared to any kind of road accident is 'timing'. In a car accident everything is split second. In this incident 2 people had ample time to think but THEY DIDN'T.
 
People run over construction workers even though they are trained, know they need to slow down, signs posted everywhere, etc. Then they want to say it was an accident.
You have responsibilities when you are driving a 2000 lb vehicle. Just as you have responsibilities when shooting a gun. More so when you are a cop.
 
Orleander said:

You don't need a license to use a fork. You don't get trained to use a fork.
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Do you wonder why that is? Or is it fairly obvious?

And I won't make a big deal of the point that you do, in fact, get trained to use a fork. (Do you have children?)

But in terms of formal, requisite training, no. In that sense, a fork can be said to be like a rifle in my state. Except that the fork wasn't designed specifically for killing.
 
Orleander said:

I didn't train them to use a fork. I just gave it to them and they were self taught.
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How old were they? Did you give them guns at the same time and let them figure it out on their own?

Look, the sad thing about this part of the debate is that most of us agree there's some degree of negligence or stupidity about the officer's actions. And, while I was hoping that this wouldn't dissolve into a gun-control debate, it seems that's where it's leading. Life is.

But the car analogy is simply dishonest. There are few analogies that work, because guns are designed to kill. The thing is that I'm not going to argue for the licensing of forks.
 
Tiassa said:
Ever see that episode of The Simpsons when Homer buys a gun? It put an end to the argument that "A gun is a tool". If you haven't seen it, there's a great scene where Homer wanders around the house using the gun to put out the lights. He uses the gun to turn off the television. His gun-toting buddies are horrified when he uses the gun to open a beer. If a gun is to be regarded as a toy for entertainment, then people shouldn't buy bullets that advertise their lethality. The truth of the matter is that guns are designed to kill.
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I saw this, excellent cartoon (social) commentary. South Park did one with ninja weapons being sold to the boys, later on while they were playing, Butters had a throwing star flung into his eye. Incidentally, the parents were more shocked at Cartman appearing naked on TV (and almost completely oblivious to Butters' injury).

Maybe that's what I'm seeing here? People are so desensitized by death that these ridiculous "defenses" are appearing?

I also suggest that statewide police retraining has got to take place.
 
Tiassa said:
And, while I was hoping that this wouldn't dissolve into a gun-control debate, it seems that's where it's leading. Life is.
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Actually, this is less about gun control because we expect law enforcers to be armed. We don't however expect them to be Homerish about it.
 
EnterpriseD said:

Actually, this is less about gun control because we expect law enforcers to be armed. We don't however expect them to be Homerish about it.
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Imagine an end-of-episode freeze-frame of me giving you a cheesy thumbs-up.

In other words, you have it exactly.
 
*reminded to aquire a firearms acquisition cert/license and handgun before the Tiassas of the world take over*

Thanks...
 
Nietzschefan said:

*reminded to aquire a firearms acquisition cert/license and handgun before the Tiassas of the world take over*
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:rolleyes:

Oh, poor, oppressed you.
 
Tiassa said:
Guns are designed to kill.
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Guns are not designed and sold to kill innocent little kids fishing at a pond. Cars are not designed and sold to kill people, yet car accidents kill far, far more people than all of the guns in in the entire world. And yet you're flippant about cars, but adamant about guns. Why?

Baron Max
 
Tiassa:
It can be used as such, but you can't change the fact that a gun is designed specifically to kill.
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So fucking what? You just never seem to address the question at hand. Why do you advocate harsher punishments for careless gun use, while acting with little outrage regarding car accidents due to careless driving? Saying 'Well, the gun is only use to kill' doesn't seem relevant. Both are acts of carelessness, and both involve the mangling of innocent children. Both are foreseeable.
 
I think anyone involved in a DUI more than once should permanently lose their licence. I bet that would cut them down.
 
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