But his followers can explain. That is what the bible is. God's word, given to his followers, and written down, passed to us. Before you say he hasn't explained himself, truly read the bible and take time to contemplate it. It isn't easy fourth grade reading, you can't just fly through it. You have to take time to think. I admit, I haven't read the entire bible, I am passing on to you what I do know. If I leave some blanks in my explinations, it is not due to God's lack of explanation, but rather my personal ignorance on that topic. If you don't want to read, at least talk to someone knowledgeable on the topic, like a pastor. I am only a sixteen year old who is trying to udo the idiocy of Sir Loone and other on these forums. I'm not trying to convert people, I'm not even trying to get you to consider Cristianity (although I hope you will), I am merely trying to help unknot what misconceptions I can.Originally posted by Tinker683
Kython13,
Firstly, if you don't know what it is your wishing to prove, then please don't even open your mouth. " If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. "
Secondly, if you can't answer for God, then I expect ( Nay, I DEMAND ) that he reveal himself to me, NOW
If God really is this lovey-dovey all-father that so many Christians presume, and since his followers are too incompetant to answer for him, AND if he REALLY cares about me, the very least he can do is bring his almighty behind off his throne, and talk to me.
If he doesn't do anything less, then I'm not obligated in any which way to believe any bit of crap his believer spew at me.
I'm sorry if I sound really bitter, but I'm very cynical toward people who make claims, and then skirt away when they can't answer them, and just shrug their shoulders stupidly.
Ok So Some People Do Not Believe In God..............
- Thread starter Agent51
- Start date
I agree the bible is good if read "face-value" but once you read into it too much shit happens. Also (I know I say it a lot) having a well respected book that you can twist to mean anything you want is pretty cool.
Kython13,
The Bible is the Word of God?
I'll remember to hold you too that.
The Bible is a book riddled with inconsistencies, errors, and horrors. In it, God condones genocides, rape, murder, and then eternal damnation, for a crime that he refuses to prevent!
The first problem with your assumption that the Bible is flawless ( the Word of God, right? ) I would ask you to prove this.
Your second problem is your assumption that I haven't read it. I have, and I have rejected it for the above reasons.
Now I'm assuming, by your claim, that you have read the Bible, yes? If so, then I would ask you to explain the atrocities, and the inconsistancies, commited in the Bible. If you fail to do so, then I'm not obligated, in any way, to consider your claims.
However, if you CAN adequatly explain the above, then I promise I will convert on the spot.
Deal?
The Bible is the Word of God?
I'll remember to hold you too that.
The Bible is a book riddled with inconsistencies, errors, and horrors. In it, God condones genocides, rape, murder, and then eternal damnation, for a crime that he refuses to prevent!
The first problem with your assumption that the Bible is flawless ( the Word of God, right? ) I would ask you to prove this.
Your second problem is your assumption that I haven't read it. I have, and I have rejected it for the above reasons.
Now I'm assuming, by your claim, that you have read the Bible, yes? If so, then I would ask you to explain the atrocities, and the inconsistancies, commited in the Bible. If you fail to do so, then I'm not obligated, in any way, to consider your claims.
However, if you CAN adequatly explain the above, then I promise I will convert on the spot.
Deal?
But a tyrant wouldn't let you choose. They would decide for you.
And as for stupid reasons, who is to say what is stupid? It is an opinion. In someplaces you can have your hand cut off for stealing a candy bar, or your tounge cut out for lying. I agree that these may seem stupid to us, but to them it is obviously important. Any sin of any kind is important to God.
I'm not going to argue if there is a God, I'm having a hard enough time keeping up with everything else, However, if the bible is true (see previous posts), and the bible says there is a God, I believe there is a God.
You can call Jesus his son, part of God, etc. If Jesus is God's son, God sacrificed his son. If Jesus is a part of God, God sacrificed a part of himself (like a man giving up a lung to save his child).
"You can call Jesus his son, part of God, etc. If Jesus is God's son, God sacrificed his son. If Jesus is a part of God, God sacrificed a part of himself (like a man giving up a lung to save his child)."
How did he sacrifice anything? Jesus is still around, right? I mean, his spirit? He still exists, on a different plane?
Last time I checked, sacrifice meant giving something up.
How did he sacrifice anything? Jesus is still around, right? I mean, his spirit? He still exists, on a different plane?
Last time I checked, sacrifice meant giving something up.
I think that's because people were writing down true events and then creating a religion at the same time. All of the above are human themes present even today. It was just that in their quest to create an organized religion they had to codnemn these things, even though those great to the relgion had commited them.
Speaking of which..... Heard about Bishops molesting kids
I must say if the same man get his lung back after a while(say three days), is it still a sacrifice?
Kython:
Then God is stupid.
CRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS!
Sorry. Here, this should help:
http://www.sciforums.com/f22/s/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6315&pagenumber=1
It's basically what Tyler said, (thanks Tyler), but more formal.
Then God is stupid.
CRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS!
Sorry. Here, this should help:
http://www.sciforums.com/f22/s/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6315&pagenumber=1
It's basically what Tyler said, (thanks Tyler), but more formal.
I am not going to argue this point. There are dozens of thesis, essays, debates, etc. on this topic. I have already admitted I don't know everything, so I will also admit that any attempt I try to argue this would end up in a circular argument.
I'll try to get back to you on that. It will require some in depth research on my part. If you can give me some specific examples I'll be able to respond better.
Deal
Kython13,
Oh my goodness.
You call what God have given us, a choice !?!
I was born into a world, condemned for a crime I didn't commit, and then expected to beg forgiveness to the very being who condemned us in the first place!
And your right. We don't have to choose God, we can say so, and suffer in eternal punishment, forever and ever and ever, sent there by him
Yeah. A choice. Hmm.... life, or eternal damnation.
I'd have rather not even been born, thank you very much.
Do you even consider this fair? Moral? This is the kind of thing gangsters do with some shops. They get the shops to pay them money for " protection " from their wrath. They don't have to pay, of course, they can choose to ignore them, and either get killed, miamed, or hurt otherwise.
Are you seriously implying that this is the same loving God you just told me about?
Firstly, If your not here to argue the case of God, then why are you argueing for their point?
Secondly, what previous posts? Please elaborate.
Thirdly, your assuming that the Bible is correct. I ask yuo, again, to prove that to me.
If you can't, than, I repeat, I don't need to consider any of your claims.
And in reguards to the sacrifice argument, Prove that God acually sacrificed anything!!
Jesus died, yes, but only for three days- then he was restored to life. If he was restored, then his act was meaningless. ( Unless your implying that his death had some kind of cosmic repreccusions, in which case, you'd need to prove it )
If Jesus's death were to really mean anything, he would still have to be in hell today. Even if he were, I would have to once again ask God, Why? Why did he have to die? Why couldn't God just forgive human beings?
Oh my goodness.
You call what God have given us, a choice !?!
I was born into a world, condemned for a crime I didn't commit, and then expected to beg forgiveness to the very being who condemned us in the first place!
And your right. We don't have to choose God, we can say so, and suffer in eternal punishment, forever and ever and ever, sent there by him
Yeah. A choice. Hmm.... life, or eternal damnation.
I'd have rather not even been born, thank you very much.
Do you even consider this fair? Moral? This is the kind of thing gangsters do with some shops. They get the shops to pay them money for " protection " from their wrath. They don't have to pay, of course, they can choose to ignore them, and either get killed, miamed, or hurt otherwise.
Are you seriously implying that this is the same loving God you just told me about?
Firstly, If your not here to argue the case of God, then why are you argueing for their point?
Secondly, what previous posts? Please elaborate.
Thirdly, your assuming that the Bible is correct. I ask yuo, again, to prove that to me.
If you can't, than, I repeat, I don't need to consider any of your claims.
And in reguards to the sacrifice argument, Prove that God acually sacrificed anything!!
Jesus died, yes, but only for three days- then he was restored to life. If he was restored, then his act was meaningless. ( Unless your implying that his death had some kind of cosmic repreccusions, in which case, you'd need to prove it )
If Jesus's death were to really mean anything, he would still have to be in hell today. Even if he were, I would have to once again ask God, Why? Why did he have to die? Why couldn't God just forgive human beings?
Kython13,
Then please do not make the claim that it is ( I.e. the Word of God ). I would further ask you, as one debator to another, to stop making claims that you will refuse to later prove. It makes you look like an idiot.
On mine as well. I have all the verses down, I just have to make the tremendous task of copying-and-pasting them.
Had I the time ( Yes, There are that many ) I would do so now. Prehaps tommarrow.
See you then!
Then please do not make the claim that it is ( I.e. the Word of God ). I would further ask you, as one debator to another, to stop making claims that you will refuse to later prove. It makes you look like an idiot.
On mine as well. I have all the verses down, I just have to make the tremendous task of copying-and-pasting them.
Had I the time ( Yes, There are that many ) I would do so now. Prehaps tommarrow.
See you then!
Now really Tinker.......Would it be 'The Greatest Story Ever Told' if God could just 'forgive us'?
"Thirdly, your assuming that the Bible is correct. I ask yuo, again, to prove that to me"
I'm okay with not doing this. When we're argueing over the nature of God, we assume the Christian God is real. Or we, atheists, say 'If this is true'.....
"Thirdly, your assuming that the Bible is correct. I ask yuo, again, to prove that to me"
I'm okay with not doing this. When we're argueing over the nature of God, we assume the Christian God is real. Or we, atheists, say 'If this is true'.....
So people created a religion around current events over a timespan of 6000 years?
Yes. First, The Catholic church doesn't condone it, and is now taking steps to try to end it. Secondly, I'm not a Bishop. Thirdly, I'm not Roman Catholic either. Fourthly, never believe everyone in the church is perfect and holy, the church is not a haven for saints. If it was, my attending church would ruin it. But rather, it is a hospital for sinners.
Tyler,
Well, it sure as hell would be a better explanation than this bogus line of reasoning Christians profess.
The idea that God needs to do anything other than just think the concept of forgiveing us, is seriously an insult to God.
It would be like me saying I'd have to kill my friends child, in order to forgive him of some past reguard. It's bogus. I could just forgive him, and be done with it. ( And now wether or not I choose to associate myself with him, depends on what he did. )
Unfortunately so. But in the mind of the Chrisitan, God is real. If I don't think theres much reason to consider his existance, I will present my arguement. ( Which I have done, since I have come to these forums. )
If Christianity ( or any other religion ) can provide adequate information reguarding the existance of God, then I will happily "take up my cross " as it were, and follow.
But until that day happens, I'm not going to believe there is a God.
Well, it sure as hell would be a better explanation than this bogus line of reasoning Christians profess.
The idea that God needs to do anything other than just think the concept of forgiveing us, is seriously an insult to God.
It would be like me saying I'd have to kill my friends child, in order to forgive him of some past reguard. It's bogus. I could just forgive him, and be done with it. ( And now wether or not I choose to associate myself with him, depends on what he did. )
Unfortunately so. But in the mind of the Chrisitan, God is real. If I don't think theres much reason to consider his existance, I will present my arguement. ( Which I have done, since I have come to these forums. )
If Christianity ( or any other religion ) can provide adequate information reguarding the existance of God, then I will happily "take up my cross " as it were, and follow.
But until that day happens, I'm not going to believe there is a God.
Jesus, who is God, came to earth and became a man. He lived a perfect life, and died. In the crucifixtion story, it is explained that as he hung on the cross, Jesus bore the sins of man. Yes he rose again. He lived his whole life perfectly, and then sacrificed his perfect live by bearing our sins. I think it isn't just that Jesus died that we are forgiven, but also that he sacrificed his perfect life. As he hung on the cross, when our sins were heaped upon Jesus, his perfect life was sacrificed, then his body died as well. My point is that he not died in body, but he sacrificed his perfection. Also, in reference to Cris's proof 3, Jesus did suffer. Jesus lived his entire life with God. His greatest suffering was when he was no longer with God.
"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Matthew 27:45 (NIV)