Ok a question to the theists

[lightgigantic]

Dug-T

Why does it matter so much that people believe in him? Its hardly going to unmake him, and of course he supposedly made you to have no real understanding of whats real after you die so he's hardly going to get pissed at you for not believing in him, a bit like if its pitch dark and you cant see how many steps you need to take to fall into a deep cavern to your death so you just make tiny steps believing you can stop yourself falling, if you want to believe in something believe in yourself..... and also think back when people were so basic and before proper languages came about, did all those people go straight to hell because they never believed? a bit unfare dont you think?

just a few points in brief
1- God does not suffer if we are separate from him. The same cannot be said of ourselves
2- your analogy of darkness/blindness is not really valid because the whole issue of religion is that it empowers one to come to a point of clear perception
3- Given points 1 and 2, its not clear how god made us to remain ignorant as if that was the final grand master plan

Now look at poor third world countrys a lot of people from there are very religious because their life is so poor on this earth its a last gasp effort to hold on to something that may be good for them when their suffering ends.

hence material opulence tends to imbibe a conditioned soul with an inflated sense of ego, while withdrawing that tends to make them a bit more humble - still, by the merit of one's previous pious and impious activities, the conditioned soul finds themselves in positions of material opulence/abject poverty

A just god? I dont think so, god's fault? no it has to do with where they are on the planet as to how harsh their climate.

or alternatively, todays 3rd world communities are tomorrows 1st world communities and vice versa

I dont dislike just one religion I dislike them all.

obviously

So do I believe in god? no i dont, am I moral? yes by my own standards born from the goodness in my heart and common fucking sense.

IOW you are relatively moral, which means the "goodness of your heart" can quickly transform according to what you are relative to

To sum up religion in a few words see below

POWER
WEAKNESS
GOOD/EVIL

You have free will people use it to the greater side of good, if you are evil it doesnt matter if you believe in god or not, you are still evil.

i can't understand what point you are trying to drive home here

Amen

and god bless

 

[Photizo]

1- God does not suffer if we are separate from him.

Just FYI: Therefore, when Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her weeping, He groaned in the spirit and was troubled.

And He said, "Where have you laid him?" They said to Him, "Lord, come and see."

Jesus wept.

Also...why then, would He have gone to such great lengths to prevent separation?

 

[Enmos]

Jesus wept.

Actually, that was me..

Verbal abuse.. :bawl:

 

[Enmos]

Indeed, especially considering Christ is the Word of God.

I was joking, but I don't know what you mean by this..

The word of God was weeping ? Seriously, how do you mean ?

 

[lightgigantic]

Just FYI: Therefore, when Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her weeping, He groaned in the spirit and was troubled.

And He said, "Where have you laid him?" They said to Him, "Lord, come and see."

Jesus wept.

Also...why then, would He have gone to such great lengths to prevent separation?

God does not diminish by our separation - the point is that when we undergo separation from god we are transformed vastly in terms of our powers/knowledge and capability.
With or without us, god's opulences remain unchecked because he is not dependent on us
Still, out of the goodness of his being, he mercifully provides the rebellious living entities with the material world as a means to understanding the error of their ways

 

[Photizo]

God does not diminish by our separation -

Agreed, yet God is also revealed to be Three in One. Go figure. :shrug:

 

[Enmos]

The Word of God might indeed be weeping at this point...anyway what I meant was, your joke constituted 'verbal abuse' of Christ, the Word of God.

You mean I assaulted the word of God by making that joke ?

 

[lightgigantic]

Agreed, yet God is also revealed to be Three in One. Go figure. :shrug:

that's ok
even in this life its not uncommon for the same man to be known as "uncle" "brother" "father" etc

 

[Photizo]

that's ok
even in this life its not uncommon for the same man to be known as "uncle" "brother" "father" etc

FYI: http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

 

[lightgigantic]

FYI: http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htm

the analogy was supposed to reflect rationalism

rationally we can indicate how one thing can be discerned in 3 or more different things

for instance how many different names for drinking water are there in the world and how many different varieties of drinking water are there?

at midday how many people indicate that the sun is directly above their head and how many suns are there in the sky?

etc etc

 

[Photizo]

the analogy was supposed to reflect rationalism

rationally we can indicate how one thing can be discerned in 3 or more different things

for instance how many different names for drinking water are there in the world and how many different varieties of drinking water are there?

at midday how many people indicate that the sun is directly above their head and how many suns are there in the sky?

etc etc

I've enjoyed the exchange. Take care now.

 

[Photizo]

You mean I assaulted the word of God by making that joke ?

That too.

 

[Enmos]

That too.

Ugh, whatever.. it was just a harmless joke.
Anyway, my apologies in that case.

 

[answers]

You have free will? Hmmm you should try testing that out see just how much you are really free to do.

A Just God? Yes. If everyone is guilty a just judge would send them all to jail. Everyone is guilty of Sin by God's standard. Why does God's standard matter? Because He is the judge not you. We are therefore all guilty and deserve punishment. Which most of us will get. However God isn't a normal judge, he is also merciful, so he forgives some. Isn't that nice of Him. He doesn't have to give us anything, be grateful that He gave us His Son. It is not our right to be saved, it is not our choice to be saved, it is by God's mercy that we are saved. People are good or bad only due to circumstances. Would you call a murderer evil? Yes of course. Would you call Robin Williams evil? No. But give Robin Williams the same upbringing and circumstances as the murderer, and Robin Williams will be a murderer. Humanity is evil by nature, it simply needs the opportunity to show its true colors.

 

[Adstar]

Difference being I asked an theist the question right? I find it fun seeing them scramble over themselves trying to explain things thats where the fun comes from, anything other than irrational is beyond them.

Woe to you who find joy in evil. Who gain pleasure from provoking and mocking others. By your own words you reveal your soul. And your soul is black.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[geeser]

Because he's God. There are all sorts of ways to jump around and decorate the answer, but when it comes down to it, it's because he's God.

who allah, zeus, vishnu, yahweh, gaia. etc...

 

[geeser]

You have free will? Hmmm you should try testing that out see just how much you are really free to do.

A Just God? Yes. If everyone is guilty a just judge would send them all to jail. Everyone is guilty of Sin by God's standard. Why does God's standard matter? Because He is the judge not you. We are therefore all guilty and deserve punishment. Which most of us will get. However God isn't a normal judge, he is also merciful, so he forgives some. Isn't that nice of Him. He doesn't have to give us anything, be grateful that He gave us His Son. It is not our right to be saved, it is not our choice to be saved, it is by God's mercy that we are saved. People are good or bad only due to circumstances. Would you call a murderer evil? Yes of course. Would you call Robin Williams evil? No. But give Robin Williams the same upbringing and circumstances as the murderer, and Robin Williams will be a murderer. Humanity is evil by nature, it simply needs the opportunity to show its true colors.

wtf are you talking about.
You have an extremely poor opinion of yourself.

 

[losfomoT]

You have free will? Hmmm you should try testing that out see just how much you are really free to do.

What do you mean here? It sounds like you are saying that we do not have free will? What examples pop into your mind when you say 'try testing that out' ?

he is also merciful, so he forgives some. Isn't that nice of Him.

And what does he base this decision on?

 

[Dug-T]

Woe to you who find joy in evil. Who gain pleasure from provoking and mocking others. By your own words you reveal your soul. And your soul is black.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

And who are you to tell anyone that they have a black soul? Provoking? no its my own choice of words if you dont agree just chose to ignore them, it obviously irritated you with your response here, i'd rather have a black soul than an empty one like you, and you know what? i'm tired of religious people trying to tell me how things are, but adstar life aint quite as simple as that.

 

[Thoreau]

I believe in a god... (NOT christian) and quite frankly i don't think it matters either way if you believe in a god or not. Whether your Buddhist, Satanist, Wiccan, Druid, Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Muslim or ANYTHING else or simple just yourself, all that matters is love. How you treat yourself and others is of utmost importance.