Well, I gather you think they were hiding something. Right? So, are you also jumping to that same conclusion? Granted, we may think they are hiding something different.. But a "conspiracy" is a conspiracy. Even if it's top secret.
No, I'm not saying I think they're hiding something. It's pretty evident that in the Kecksburg case that they did hide something, but there isn't anything solid about the Roswell case that says they are hiding anything.
Because they got their facts mixed up? That doesn't mean it was a cover up.
The others do not. It's also important to understand that after Kecksburg, WE KNOW our military will lie. So, I find it amazing you trust them more than the eye witnesses. Why do debunking skeptics always trust a military which is prone to secrecy to tell us the truth over witnesses? Yet another strange way of thinking in the mind of a skeptic.
We know our military will lie if it is in the nation's best interest. Witnesses? Who witnessed Roswell? The best we've ever gotten out of anyone was "I don't know what the hell it was, but it wasn't of this world..." which is not a statement that anyone who HAS come forward was qualified to make.
Again, I'm not saying that at some point the military hasn't covered something up. But why the jump to extraterrestrials? Because a few people said that they were? How would they know? Yet another strange way of thinking in the mind of a believer.
Well, actually the rancher who recovered the flying disk HAD RECOVERED SEVERAL BALLOONS BEFORE OUT THERE. He was familiar with them. Furthermore, Marcel was also familiar with them.
Brazell had recovered two previously. Two. Not ten, not six, not twenety. Two. And I beg you, what makes you think that it could not have been a different kind of balloon? The balloon the Air Force described was of the same reported size as the object that came crashing down, so what makes it so obscene to think that the thing was just a different kind of balloon? I see no reason to not believe that.
Okay, answer me this. What mistake did they make? (In this case, not the other one your trying to debunk).
Again, pure hypothosis, but backed by official Air Force releases and several official investigations: They made the mistake of taking the rancher for his word. When he said it was a saucer that crashed, they believed him. Upon closer inspection, it turned out to be a terrestrial object. They made the mistake of reporting the thing to be a saucer when they didn't know for sure.
This is where the importance of the Kecksburg case comes in. It illustrates we have hidden "UFO's" before and lied about them. Thus, the alien spacecraft hypothesis is only unlikely because of what could have been potentially covered up.
Exactly. They could have been covering up something else for all we know. I guess my problem isn't that they covered something up, but the irresponsible belief that it was an alien spacecraft. Our government has proven that they will protect us when the time arises, as was the case in Kecksberg. When a soviet satellite crashed on our soil, instead of putting us at risk by admitting we had a secret technology of the USSR, they lied and said they didn't. Later, they admitted that they did have a soviet satellite, becuase there was no longer a threat.
It wouldn't surprise me if something similar happened here.
It's important too understand that when you investigate, you can't just stop at the military explanation for everything. You can dig further. Especially when you have so many cases which all have a very similar story line and theme. Involving the same cover-up, of the same thing.
I understand what you're saying, but it's not true that we have "so many cases" or that they all follow the same theme. If by "theme" you mean the idea that things keep falling out of the sky, then you're right. But things always fall out of the sky. There's a lot of stuff up there!
There are two major cases in which UFO believers point to; Kecksberg and Roswell. That's it. And the only theme in either of them is mistakes made by the military which caused an uproar. They've both been explained, however. At some point, you have to realize that they're not always trying to hide stuff. Roswell may be a cover up, and Kecksberg was a cover up, but there's no real evidence that says they involved aliens. Nothing.
Wow! Jessie Marcel's story is corroberated by his son, among other witnesses
Wow! Jesse Marcel's son was a little kid at the time, and only recalled ANYTHING when he was put under hypnosis! Yeah, I'd call that dependable...please... He says of the objects he only remembered once he was hypnotized, and I quote,
"They were not of this world, trust me. They looked like material, but they were light as a feather."
Yeah. That sounds very out of this world to me, that's for sure. C'mon, people. This guy IDOLIZES his father. He's even a military man, (Col. Jessie Marcel Jr) and has heard so much of his father's story that it does not surprise me that he would believe anything he was told. Add to that, again, that Marcel Jr didn't recall any of the details until he was put under hypnosis, and I call his entire testimony into question.
He's been consistant and has not once been called dishonest
Who, Jr. or Sr.? If you're talking about Maj. Jesse Marcel, I call bullshit on your comment. He's been called into question PLENTY. Here's proof:
--He claimed to have been a pilot since 1928 with over 3000 logged flight hours, yet the FAA has no record of Jesse Marcel. Also, his Reserve Officer Career Brief, dated Nov 20, 1947, lists his flying experience as "none".
--He also claims to have shot down five enemy planes, yet there is no record of him even flying a plane, let alone shooting an enemy one down.
--He claims that he was an aid to Gen. Hap Arnold, and that Arnold made the decision for Marcel to go to intelligence school, but his first assignment in the military was as a student in the Army Air Forces Intelligence School (AAFIS), so the decision to send him there was made before he even became a member of the armed forces.
--Marcel claimed that he didn't know about his promotion to Lt. Col in the Reserves until after he left the service. This claim was an effort to back his story that the Air Force intentionally kept him "too busy following the Roswell incident to even check his personnel files". Yet, in a letter dated Oct 29, 1947 Marcel actually
applied for the promotion. It gets better. In a letter dated Nov 20, 1947, Marcel was informed that the request for the promotion was approved, but it would be canceled unless he signed the acceptance oath "within a reasonable time". And on Dec 1, 1947, Marcel signed the oath, and officially accepted the promotion, totally contradicting his claim.
--Marcel claimed that he had a bachelor's degree in physics from GW University, and had attended LSU, NYU, and OSU. Yet in personell files, Marcel's claim is that he attended LSU for one year as a non-credit student. Also, LSU has no record of Marcel (But they do of his son). Even better, GWU has no record of him even attending the school, let alone graduating. A second search was conducted of the records, and the same result came up.
--Marcel claimed that he wrote the report that President Truman read on the air regarding Russia exploding an atomic device, but Truman did not read any report on the air about that incident. Also, declassified records do not include Marcel's name anywhere in regards to the reporting of the Soviet's A-Bomb explosion. The copy of the White House statement also shows no evidence that Marcel had anything to do with it.
--Marcel claims that he never spoke the reporters in General Ramey's office, even though he wanted to tell them about it. He also claims that when Ramey entered the room, he told Marcel "not to say anything," and that "he'd handle it", which is funny, because J. Bond Johnson, the reporter representing the Fort Worth Morning Star that day, reported that Marcel was the one doing the talking. Sources state that the article written by Johnson contains information which would have had to have come from Marcel, but I'm not exactly sure if that's true or not.
--Marcel claims that the photos of him holding debris were not doctored, and were of the actual wreckage brought back from the site. He also claims that the real wreckage was taken away, and replaced with false materials, and more pictures were taken, but Marcel "was not in those photos". It's funny that this is said, because the photo of Marcel shows him holding a radar target. So, according to Jesse Marcel's own testimony, the photo in which he is holding the radar target is a real picture of the real wreckage from the site!
So YES, Jesse Marcel has been called dishonest, and has contradicted many of his own statements. He has lied about his qualifications, about his education, and about the events surrounding the Roswell incident.
I find it AMAZING that you still consider the governments explanation more believable than his. We've just established the fact that the military is dishonest when dealing with UFO's and yet you still think the military is more honest than him.
I find it AMAZING that you believe Marcel without having even done a shred of research. But that's typical of the believer; they simply take the witnesses at their word, and don't question anything about them. In fact, when someone calls a witness into question, the believer is quick to jump down the skeptic's thraot! Why? Because the truth about the witness's true lack of credibility cannot come out, lest we learn that cases like Roswell aren't as spectacular as they thought.
And we've just established the fact that Jesse Marcel also lies. So why believe him so easily?
Given the military's tendency to coverup hidden/test objects, why do you trust their story over his?
Given Marcel's tendancy to totally make shit up regarding himself, why do you trust his story?
Those are the governments facts. The witnesses have been proven to be more honest and trustworthy than our military involving this case. Maybe one day you will understand this. Untill then you will always be way out there.
I really want you to re-read this comment now that I've shown you that about Marcel, and I want you to comment on it. I want to hear how you're going to talk your way out of this one, really, I do. "Proven to be honest and trustworthy"? First of all, you don't know a damned thing about the witnesses, obviously, and second of all, I just proved that the leading witness to the Roswell case, Jesse Marcel, was NOT honest OR trustworthy.
Okay, nice hypothesis. It's all bullshit,
How do you know it's bullshit?
However, we can both hypothesis and are doing that.
Yes, and I've shown you about a dozen different logical theories to your ONE illogical theory that aliens crashed on Earth. My theories are based on evidence, yours are based on speculation.
JD