Non-theist

I have no idea how Sanskrit translates into Hindi or English, so I cannot say. In my experiences with the Quran, I have found that translations are more like interpretations.

I did not know there was a translation of the Rig Ved by Mahesh Yogi, I thought he had done the Geeta? Maybe he only translated a few verses?
 
I have no idea how Sanskrit translates into Hindi or English, so I cannot say. In my experiences with the Quran, I have found that translations are more like interpretations.

Every translation must have at least some of interpretation by the nature of language.
Some translations are, of course, much better than others.
 
The way I see it, like the Arabic Quran, there is a reason why the Vedic scriptures are still studied in Sanskrit.
 
The leadership of the Theosophists selected Jiddu Krishnamurti to be the head figure of The Order of the Star when he was 13 years old and the spent the next 20 years or so studying to be the vehichle for the second coming of Christ and lead the Order.

He later not only stepped down from the Order, but he used his power as the leader to dissolve it.

He has greatly influenced me and my philosophy.

The following is a speech given by Jiddu Krishnamurti at the dissolution of "The Order of the Star" in 1929:

We are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain....

I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organised; nor should any organisation be formed to lead or coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organise a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organise it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallised; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others.

This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley....

So that is the first reason, from my point of view, why the Order of the Star should be dissolved. In spite of this, you will probably form other Orders, you will continue to belong to other organisations searching for Truth. I do not want to belong to any organisation of a spiritual kind; please understand this....

If an organisation be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, as I happen to be the Head of the Order, to dissolve it.

This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this; not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group of special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions, may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality.

Nor is it the lure of money, nor the desire to live a comfortable life, which attracts me. If I wanted to lead a comfortable life I would not come to a Camp or live in a damp country! I am speaking frankly because I want this settled once and for all. I do not want these childish discussion year after year.

A newspaper reporter, who interviewed me, considered it a magnificent act to dissolve an organisation in which there were thousands and thousands of members. To him it was a great act because he said: "What will you do afterwards, how will you live? You will have no following, people will no longer listen to you." If there are only five people who will listen, who will live, who have their faces turned towards eternity, it will be sufficient. Of what use is it to have thousands who do not understand, who are fully embalmed in prejudice, who do not want the new, but would rather translate the new to suit their own sterile, stagnant selves?....

Because I am free, unconditioned, whole, not the part, not the relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal, I desire those, who seek to understand me, to be free, not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage which will become a religion, a sect. Rather should they be free from all fears - from the fear of religion, from the fear of salvation, from the fear of spirituality, from the fear of love, from the fear of death, from the fear of life itself. As an artist paints a picture because he takes delight in that painting, because it is his self-expression, his glory, his well-being, so I do this and not because I want any thing from anyone. You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers - a miracle - transport you to this realm of eternal freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority.

You have listened to me for three years now, without any change taking place except in the few. Now analyse what I am saying, be critical, so that you may understand thoroughly, fundamentally....

For eighteen years you have been preparing for this event, for the Coming of the World Teacher. For eighteen years you have organised, you have looked for someone who would give a new delight to your hearts and minds, who would transform your whole life, who would give you a new understanding; for someone who would raise you to a new plane of life, who would give you new encouragement, who would set you free - and now look what is happening! Consider, reason with yourselves, and discover in what way that belief has made you different - not with the superficial difference of the wearing of a badge, which is trivial, absurd. In what manner has such a belief swept away all unessential things of life? That is the only way to judge: in what way are you freer, greater, more dangerous to every society which is based on the false and the unessential? In what way have the members of this organisation of the Star become different?....

You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else, for your happiness on someone else, for your enlightenment on someone else.... when I say look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few. So why have an organisation?....

No man from outside can make you free; nor can organised worship, nor the immolation of yourselves for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourselves into an organisation, nor throwing yourselves into work, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters, but you do not put it on an alter and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organisations become your chief concern. "How many members are there in it?" That is the first question I am asked by all newspaper reporters. "How many followers have you? By their number we shall judge whether what you say is true or false." I do not know how many there are. I am not concerned with that. If there were even one man who had been set free, that were enough....

Again, you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development and the purification and in the incorruptibility of that self alone is the Kingdom of Eternity....

You have been accustomed to being told how far you have advanced, what is your spiritual status. How childish! Who but yourself can tell you if you are incorruptible?....

But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without a beginning and without an end, will walk together with greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that true friendship - which you do not seem to know - there will be real co-operation on the part of each one. And this not because of authority, not because of salvation, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all pleasure, than all sacrifice.

So those are some of the reasons why, after careful consideration for two years, I have made this decision. It is not from a momentary impulse. I have not been persuaded to it by anyone - I am not persuaded in such things. For two years I have been thinking about this, slowly, carefully, patiently, and I have now decided to disband the Order, as I happen to be its Head. You can form other organisations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages, new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free.
 
No it's not.
I worship this Karma Manifest in much the same way that theists worship their Gods. Pragmatically, it's really no different than a God - other than the fact that it is not cognizant.

While I do not hold any belief in the Metaphysical Truth that Gods exist, neither do I deny that theists' Gods exist as a matter of reality.

I do not have faith in the Gods, but their belief and worship manifest their Gods in reality.
While truth may be distinct and separate from us and beyond our control, we create reality.

All Gods exist.

I think most Gods came about as parable and analogy in an attempt to explain the beliefs, anyway. It's much easier to convey thoughts that way.

Speaking of analogy and parable...
All life exists in the same huge pool of water. Every move anyone makes in the water results in little eddies being formed and echoing outward away from them. These eddies interact with each other. These interactions can be constructive or destructive. If enough beings move in unison, currents are formed. Every splash on the surface creates a ripple. These ripples interact with each other. These interactions can be constructive or destructive. If enough beings move in unison, waves are formed.

Sometime in our history, we learned how to build rafts, canoes, longboats, sailboats, ocean liners and warships.

I have carved my own canoe.

I see most religions as luxury ocean liners. They offer a promise of keeping the passengers high above the water and away from all the “dangers” of life. The passengers have never been in the engine room and have no idea what is happening on the bridge – nor do they care to know. They sit beside the pool, or in the vast dining halls with faith in the captain and crew will take care of all their needs. The massive wake of the ship causes a great deal of disruption and waves in the water and many are caught in the vast and rapid currents. The massive bulk and huge propellers have claimed many lives – not to mention those lives which have been specifically targeted as threats.

Of course there are exceptions.
The Naked Ascetics swim in the water as we did when we were animals, gathering seaweed to survive.
Buddhists, as the ideals were was taught by Siddhartha, gather cast-off scrap from the other boats to lash together rafts and drift in the currents.
Buddhists, in the western traditions I have witnessed, travel in clusters of smaller, fuel efficient, ocean liners. The Captain and Navigator are drunk on the Lido deck with all the passengers. The crew are starry-eyed naives, infatuated with the passengers and crew.

My intention is not to sell a million of my patent pending, hand carved canoes. It is to remind people of the beauty of the water and convince them to try and carve their own.

A theist is a person that believes in god(s).
A non-theist is a person that does not believe in any god, so is an atheist :shrug:
 
The leadership of the Theosophists selected Jiddu Krishnamurti to be the head figure of The Order of the Star when he was 13 years old and the spent the next 20 years or so studying to be the vehichle for the second coming of Christ and lead the Order.

He later not only stepped down from the Order, but he used his power as the leader to dissolve it.

He has greatly influenced me and my philosophy.

The following is a speech given by Jiddu Krishnamurti at the dissolution of "The Order of the Star" in 1929:

I find him rather anti-social. :p
 
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I have been going on lately about how I do not consider myself a theist or an atheist. I have taken to calling myself a “non-theist”
No you are not. You do not call yourself non-atheist. You are both non-theist and non-atheist. What is the point of calling yourself non-theist?
 
If one does not abide by theism or atheism, he is both non-theist and non-atheist. Why refer to yourself as one, and not the other?
 
I agree with lixluke, saying non-theist does not distinguish one raven from atheists.
 
Personally, I think One_Raven falls somewhere close to deist. Thomas Payne, I believe, wrote quite a bit about deism, you might want to check him out.
 
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