Noah's Ark

[wellwisher]

Plus, of course, the "mark" wasn't for Cain's protection it was so that no one would kill him and prevent him suffering. The mark was a warning to others.

Who were these others if Adam, Eve and Cain were the only humans in Eden at that time? It was the prehumans, who were numbered as part of the animals. Being prehuman, they had human genes but lacked the extra brain power needed for civilization.

Abel was the herder of animals and Cain was the tiller of the soil. When Cain kills Abel, farming symbolically supersedes the herding/wandering instincts of the prehumans. This marks the beginning of the transition into civilization. This also marked the death of innocence; the unconsciousness of the pre-humans (Abel), who through the primitive fear of novelty, would have become very defensive to the change symbolized by Cain. God protected the transition; Cain was given sign.

If you consider Adam and Eve, they also screwed up in the garden by directly disobeying a command by God. Cain was more of less free lancing in his will power, but not against any prohibition. The punishment of Adam and Eve was loss of paradise, not torture. Adam supppsedly lives to 1000 years, which would not have been the work of a torturous God.

Dywyddyr might be projecting his own liking for torture.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Who were these others

The ones that the Bible neglected to provide any background for.

if Adam, Eve and Cain were the only humans in Eden at that time?

Er, because Cain went off to the Land of Nod.

It was the prehumans, who were numbered as part of the animals. Being prehuman, they had human genes but lacked the extra brain power needed for civilization.

Unsupported speculation.

When Cain kills Abel, farming symbolically supersedes the herding/wandering instincts of the prehumans. This marks the beginning of the transition into civilization. This also marked the death of innocence; the unconsciousness of the pre-humans (Abel), who through the primitive fear of novelty, would have become very defensive to the change symbolized by Cain. God protected the transition; Cain was given sign.

Unsupported speculation.

Dywyddyr might be projecting his own liking for torture.

And you seem to be neglecting the fact that I have directly quoted what the Bible claims (if you know of another source for Cain and Abel please let me know), besides making your own ridiculous assumptions.

 

[Robittybob1]

Sinking Pacific Islands

how long would it take for the wheather to calm down in the event of an URL removed.
i understand the position of the weight of the ice would not cause this, how about any other cause ?(meteor,magnetics,magma flow..etc)

(BTW nice reply Anti-Flag)

Ever heard of Archimedes? Melt the ice of the Antarctic would the land mass float upward and the ocean floors would correspondingly sink. So instead of sea levels really rising you would have the small islands in the middle of the oceans suffering from sinking instead.

 

[Aqueous Id]

Pick your flavor.

 

[Robittybob1]

Pick your flavor.

You would wonder why there is this theme in many diverse cultures? Does this mean something dramatic happened all over the Earth, multiple Arks Multiple Noahs, multiple floods?

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Ever heard of Archimedes? Melt the ice of the Antarctic would the land mass float upward and the ocean floors would correspondingly sink. So instead of sea levels really rising you would have the small islands in the middle of the oceans suffering from sinking instead.

No, this is not what happens. The ocean floors are firmly attached to the crust beneath them. They rise and fall with almost imperceptible slowness in response to tectonic activity, just as the rest of the earth's crust does, but they do not rise and fall several hundred meters every ten or twenty thousand years with the temperature cycles that raise and lower sea level.

We've got huge volumes of detailed evidence of this going back for hundreds of thousands of years. Since we're just coming out of an ice age (the end of one being defined as the point at which there is no more permanent ice in glaciers or polar caps), sea level has only been a couple of hundred meters lower than it is today. However, that was enough to greatly narrow the straits between land masses, allowing humans from Africa to colonize Australia 60KYA with their primitive seafaring technology.

But at the other extreme, sea level can rise several hundred meters above its current level once all the surface ice is melted. Places like Florida, Bangladesh and the Netherlands will vanish.

To revisit your original question for a moment, to be precise, the mass of the ice packs on places like Greenland and the Himalayas does actually weigh them down slightly. When that ice melts they will rise a little bit, but the rise will be measured in meters, not hundreds of meters. What it can do is change the slope of an island just enough for its rivers to flow in different directions.

 

[Aqueous Id]

I doubt seriously that any of these cultures are doing more than trying to explain natural disasters - why do they occur - why the floods, the typhoons, tsunamis, etc?

In many of these scenarios, they are living in a floodplain in order to irrigate crops.

A better question is: why do modern people, with the abundance of knowledge and technology at their disposal, still turn to ancient legends about floods to derive an ideology from which they will develop a stance against Science?

 

[Hertz]

If ALL species evolved from a male and female then Noah simply had to gather one of each of this original species.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

A better question is: why do modern people, with the abundance of knowledge and technology at their disposal, still turn to ancient legends about floods to derive an ideology from which they will develop a stance against Science?

Read Jung and learn about archetypes. An archetype is an instinctive belief that we are born with; it feels more true than any knowledge we acquire later in life through learning and reasoning.

Jung died before genetics became as well understood and as prominent as it is now. Today we would say that an archetype is either:

• A. A survival trait from an earlier era, such as the instinct all animals are born with to flee from a larger animal with both eyes in front of its face, or...
• B. A random mutation that was passed down accidentally by genetic drift or through a genetic bottleneck.

A. is admittedly difficult to imagine. But we have no idea what dangers might have faced our ancestors during their millions of years of evolution. It is at least possible that various instinctive supernatural beliefs helped them escape from dangers of a type we cannot imagine today.

 

[Repo Man]

It is at least possible that various instinctive supernatural beliefs helped them escape from dangers of a type we cannot imagine today.

I'd guess that they helped with social cohesion, and also helped curtail the amount of time spent pondering the meaning of life when competition with other groups of humans, and other apex predators were far more pressing concerns.

 

[Aqueous Id]

If ALL species evolved from a male and female then Noah simply had to gather one of each of this original species.

And there simply had to be a mass die-off in the late Cenezoic, which of course there wasn't. The ark story is a fable. It never happened. It was invented to explain why humans have to suffer from natural disasters. They had no idea the snow caps in Turkey were melting each spring. It was too far away. They had no idea the Earth was round, or where even the immediate lands were located. They were backwards superstitious myth and legend tellers. It's just a story, nothing more.

They wouldn't even figure out what a Hertz was for -- about 2 to 3,000 years. That's pretty backward, dontcha think?

Not much has evolved since humans did. So no, Noah's pets didn't include dinosaurs or even blue footed boobies.

 

[kx000]

Original earth. continental shifts are underway, and people have assumed free will in the Medeteranian (call it Atlantis). Now that is about 20,000 b.c, 10,000 years later this dude Noah builds a ark (not boat) and brings his family and theres, and 2 of everything. He lands in present day Portugal/Spain, after a massive regional flood and wordly earthquakes. I imagine this ARK was built apon a huge mountain to withstand the earthquakes, then when the water level raised the water gently carried the ark away. After a few weeks afloat they land in Portugal. Then God speaks to Noah and tells him to go east, to the promise land, the land he, nor his sons would ever see. Fuck the bible, honestly. In 3000 b.c you have intelignet humans, and indigenous humans in the medeteranian, welcome to Egypt. In the "New World" you only have indigenous, hello Mayans.

 

[Aqueous Id]

Original earth.

Molten slag devoid of life.

continental shifts are underway,

That could be anytime.

and people have assumed free will in the Medeteranian (call it Atlantis).

OK by the time humans got to Europe, millions of years had passed.

Now that is about 20,000 b.c,

15,000 years before writing was invented

10,000 years later this dude Noah builds a ark

5,000 year before writing and shipbuilding were invented

(not boat) and brings his family and theres, and 2 of everything.

He travelled the Earth to do this. The flat Earth. Because, like Linnaeus or Darwin, he knew his fauna. The flora - oh yeah, seeds. Sure, they were all dropping seeds, all over the planet, even though the North and South hemispheres are in seasonal opposition.

He lands in present day Portugal/Spain,

So Ararat is on the Iberian Peninsula.

after a massive regional flood and wordly earthquakes.

Which cracked the Earth open to drain the water.

I imagine this ARK was built apon a huge mountain to withstand the earthquakes, then when the water level raised the water gently carried the ark away.

The construction was done above the tree line.

After a few weeks afloat they land in Portugal.

Porque ele gostava do fado.

Then God speaks to Noah

Em portugues, Ingles, o que?

and tells him to go east, to the promise land, the land he, nor his sons would ever see.

Vai meu irmao, pegue ese aviao, voce tem razao...

Fuck the bible, honestly.

In 3000 b.c you have intelignet humans, and indigenous humans in the medeteranian, welcome to Egypt.

Suddenly after 3 million years of intelligence, they got smart in Egypt under the Pharoahs.

In the "New World" you only have indigenous, hello Mayans.

Well you had me going. Cliff hanger. Surprise ending(s).

 

[aaqucnaona]

I need to know whether this is a discussion in mythology or fundamentalism. Btw, worldwide is not the term we mean in this age, its would mean a very localised region. For eg. for greeks, the med and surround were considered the world in the mythology. The birthplace of abrahamic religions has a large number of river that can flood, but their is not mystical or supernatural about it.

 

[babybudd]

I think you will find there is not enough water on the planet to completely flood over all land.
The Noahs Ark Myth goes back alot further than the bible.

 

[Diode-Man]

I think you will find there is not enough water on the planet to completely flood over all land.
The Noahs Ark Myth goes back alot further than the bible.

Noahs Ark and all the other "Magical" stories of the bible are ALL myths.

Such as the splitting the sea by Moses, Lazarus getting risen from the dead ETC

 

[kx000]

20,000 b.c. - Adam
10,000 b.c. - Noah
10,000 b.c. - 5,000 b.c. Noah's seed spreads through Western Europe and the Medeteranian
3,000 b.c. - Civillization, and the history of the anicent world vanishes in Egypt when Upper, and Lower Egypt are united.
3,000 b.c. - Fall of Pharoh Pharohs rape its people of their wealth and land to build monumentss no one really understands
3.000 b.c. - a Nomad goes to Egypt on a sail boat with his pregnent wife. Lands in Upper Egypt and opposes the god Pharoh (King Scorpion) and the kings of Egypt. He kills the god Pharoh, and is next in line to be king (as annointed by King Scorpion), but he denies the crown. Riots break out in Egypt, many buildings are burned. The nomad uses Israleities of Egypt, and Isralie nomads to fight against the crown in an attemt to at the very least delay the Egyptian dynasty. The god Pharoh is killed, his adopted son is also killed by the nomad after refusing to deny the crown, and the nomad is exiled from Egypt. Menes is named Pharoh and rules over the first cilization since Atlantis.
0,000 - Christ, and all his apostles are killed or martyers by the Romans, and Jews who are not jews in an attempt to kill the Holy bloodline. Both Jesus, and Jude give seed. Jesus, Jude, Mary, Joseph, Judas Iscariot never plan on creating an established curch, or religion. They spoke of a way of life, not mass controll. He who hath a ear.
600 - a.d. The Holy Roman Catholic church is founded and they bare Jesus dead on the cross as their insignia.
600 a.d. The Prophet Muhhamad recieves his revelation.
1000 a.a. Islam become a major world religion
1000-1300 The "holy" world goes to war over multiple the Gods.
1300-1500 - The world spirals out of controll durring the dark ages. Multiple monarchs, and multiple Popes. Disease plags Europe. First public banks.
1500 - Slaves brought to the New World
1535 - Henry 8 seals his fate, executes Sir More on grounds of his religious athuority.
1558 - "Shakespear"
1600 - Henry 4 attempts to end religious wars in Europe
1607 - first English colony established in the New World.
1611 - The King James bible is written in England, 4611 years after the Nomad is covered up in Egypt.
1618 - More religious wars in Egypt
1619 - African Slaves in the colonies, hell breaks loose. (Satan truly has dominon over man kind at this point)
1642 - English Civil war
1660 - English Monarch is restored.
1665 - Plauge kills 75,000 people in England
1666 - Great fire of London.
1689 - Peter the Great is crowned Czar
1769 - Industrial revolution
1770 - Boston Masacre
1783 - Revolutionary war is ended in America.
1789 - French Revolution
1793 - The cotton gin is invented
1796 - Napollean, conquest include Rome and Egypt.
1848 - Gold rush
1865 - American Civil war over slavery ends, Lincoln Assinated 3 days later. (racisim exist until arguably the 1970's, I just realized America is a joke (Today))
1868 - Revolution in Spain
1873 - Gold standard

Moral of the story is whos truth is it?

 

[kx000]

Noahs Ark and all the other "Magical" stories of the bible are ALL myths.

Such as the splitting the sea by Moses, Lazarus getting risen from the dead ETC

Lazarus is b.s., and the Sea split east and west, not north and south.

 

[Aqueous Id]

20,000 b.c. - Adam
10,000 b.c. - Noah
10,000 b.c. - 5,000 b.c. Noah's seed spreads through Western Europe and the Medeteranian
:
:
:
1873 - Gold standard

Moral of the story is whos truth is it?

World history leads to the gold standard?

A fabricated chronology. Here is what you want to address:

Origins of the Genesis Ark story
The story of Noah's Ark in Genesis is considered by modern scholars to be directly dependent upon the Babylonian version,[34] which it parallels point by point, in the correct order, from beginning to end.[35] It is a composite text,[36] with some parts belonging to theJahwist source and some to the Priestly source.[37] The Jahwist version has modified the Babylonian text to make it conform to a monotheistic theology.[34]

 

[Aqueous Id]

I need to know whether this is a discussion in mythology or fundamentalism.

Good point. This is Comparative Religions, so Noah needs to be compared to Gilgamesh.