No religion can believe in an eternal soul

[Cris]

Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

It is strongly suspected that the concept of a soul or spirit came from the observation that a dead person is no longer breathing and that the "breath" was the life force and had departed. The derivation of soul/spirit comes from air or breath.

This erroneous notion went on to give rise to all the other wonderful imaginative ideas about evil spirits floating around in the air and that you could breath one in and be possessed, etc.

The biblical quote above emphasizes the nonsense that "life force / spirit / soul" are derived from some ethereal air-like entity.

In the many millenia that such nonsense prevailed many variations of this theme were espoused and refined, and became the source of the duality fantasies that now prevail in religions and similar superstitions.

All of that was to some extent understandable before we realized that personalities, thoughts, emotions, mind, are all generated by neural networks that have entirely physical characteristics. This knowledge is only decades old and it will unfortunately take a while to dispel the soul nonsense that has developed over the past several thousands of years.

The question of whether a soul is eternal is as useful as discussing whether Micky Mouse could ever become president.

Souls/spirits don't exist folks. The idea is based on utter nonsense and ignorance and we should all move on.

 

[Myles]

True, some of the "symptoms" of NDEs...the tunnel, the light,floating sensation,out of body experience,but ...it does not explain that there appear to be recognizable and repeatable themes or things revealed to people throughout them despite differences in the details of the account and the fact they encompass a wide variety of people,believers as well as non-believers. Sort of like the same TV episode but presented somewhat differently each time.
I understand the work that Blackmore and Karl Jansen and others have done on it but it still doesn't seem to account for these re-occuring themes.

I'm ultimately open to the possibility that they are just the dying brain undergoing a complex set of chemical reactions but my intuition tells me otherwise.

Why do you think that the process may involve more than electrochemical activity in the brain because the phenomona associated with NDEs are similar? Might that not just be what one would expect given the commonality in the structures of all human brains ?

 

[Lori_7]

Yeah, maybe that's true but if Genesis 1 wasn't the creation of the spirits of humans then when did the Christian God create all of the individual human spirits? If he didn't create us, then we have no purpose (Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.)

When? Who knows? Who cares? What difference does it make? Of course we have a purpose or we wouldn't be here. God doesn't do anything futile. I think that time is a constraint here on earth, in the physical realm. But I get the impression that time does not exist in the spiritual realm...a concept that I can't necessarily comprehend, but since I'm here, that doesn't surprise me.

 

[nova900]

Why do you think that the process may involve more than electrochemical activity in the brain because the phenomona associated with NDEs are similar? Might that not just be what one would expect given the commonality in the structures of all human brains ?

As I mentioned,perhaps that is the case, but it doesn't convince me these re-occurring bits of information related to a broad spectrum of people during these accounts is just due to chemical reactions in the commonality of the human brain structure. I would think there would be greater variations in these themes as I call them ,such as litterally corruborating the Abrahamic God or any other in ancient mythology.

Some of the highlights of NDE's:

-there are various planes or spheres in the afterlife ranging from the earthly plane to the highest heavenly realms.

-God only cares about religion as far as its ability to bring you to the concept of God, and could care less about literal religous idealogies.

-Life exists on worlds all across the universe.

-We are all essentially part of God but in the dual state of our physical selves,we forget about our true origin as it is masked by the human ego.

-God created the universe to explore he/she self thru the multiplicity of trillions of events occurring at any one given time.

-There is no devil only the ignorance of the human ego or a state in the absence of God.

-God does not have anger fits over an atheists non belief..it's the spiritual state of your heart that's valued.

-Re-incarnation is real

-Most half decent people end up in the 3rd realm--1st heavenly realm.

anyways we will find out when we die.Even most of the hard core skeptics cannot know for sure they are bogus.

 

[Myles]

Why would you expect greater variations ? If there were such varitions would you no longer beieve that there was any deep significance in NDEs ?

 

[nova900]

Why would you expect greater variations ? If there were such varitions would you no longer beieve that there was any deep significance in NDEs ?

Then it would seem more of a projection of God as the mental construct of what they had believed God to be rather than something that conflicts with the idealogy they had been led to believe.
Yes, I would give less credence to them if there were greater variations.

 

[Cris]

Lori,

Of course we have a purpose or we wouldn't be here.

Logical fallacy. Existence of something is not dependent on that something having a purpose.

And since there are countless speculations a to the purpose of life that tends to reveal that no one knows what that purpose is.

If there were to be a god and it had a purpose for us then what purpose could be served by not revealing our purpose to us.

 

[Enmos]

I can only speak for myself. I have 100% faith in God. When He tells me to do something, I do it no matter how odd it seems. I would do anything for Him. Anything.

Would you kill your children if He tells you so ?

 

[Cris]

Sandy,

I have 100% faith in God. When He tells me to do something, I do it no matter how odd it seems. I would do anything for Him. Anything.

By what means do you distinguish your certainty that a god talks to you and the characteristics of a personal delusion? Remember that those who suffer from delusion are equally convinced that what they claim is absolutely true.

There are certainly cases where mothers have killed their children because they believed a god told them to do so.

Without external independent evidence for the existence of a god your claims are indistinguishable to delusion. And since we have vast volumes of evidence for delusional behavior and absolutely zilch for the existence of gods, why then would you continue to persist with your assertions?

 

[Lori_7]

Lori,

Logical fallacy. Existence of something is not dependent on that something having a purpose.

And since there are countless speculations a to the purpose of life that tends to reveal that no one knows what that purpose is.

If there were to be a god and it had a purpose for us then what purpose could be served by not revealing our purpose to us.

i'm sorry, i will reiterate...from what i personally know of god, he does nothing in futility. the purpose is communion. and he does reveal that to some of us.

 

[tablariddim]

-God created the universe to explore he/she self thru the multiplicity of trillions of events occurring at any one given time.

I don't know where you got that from, but when I used to think more deeply about spirituality, god, purpose and what have you (a long time ago) I actually had an intuitively original thought that all life forms and even some non-life forms can be equated to 'the nerve endings' of the universe, i.e. the universe experiences its self through its self (the creation of everything). Now, if god is merely an ancient acronym for universe from a time when people didn't know any better, then one could say that god (universe) created everything (created itself) in order to feel, or more precisely, to be aware of itself.

Therefore, one could say that our purpose is to transmit our life 'events' experiences to the creator, which happens to be the universe and we do that merely by being alive. If there are life forms and specific non life forms scattered throughout the universe doing the same as us, it means it can have a handle on just about everything going on within it.

Just to anthropomorphise the universe even more, maybe it does this so that it can do a better job of it in V2.

I'm not implying that I fully, or even partly believe in this idea, but it was interesting that you mentioned a similar concept, though I can't see what it has to do with NDE's.

 

[tablariddim]

the purpose is communion.

Hmm... see my post above...maybe not communion in the sense you mean, but certainly communion.

 

[nova900]

I don't know where you got that from, but when I used to think more deeply about spirituality, god, purpose and what have you (a long time ago) I actually had an intuitively original thought that all life forms and even some non-life forms can be equated to 'the nerve endings' of the universe, i.e. the universe experiences its self through its self (the creation of everything). Now, if god is merely an ancient acronym for

.

Where did I get that from?
From reading literally hundreds of accounts of NDEs. It's one of those re-occuring themes I talked about.
In other words ...it was something told to people who asked the being of light or whoever they encountered...why God created the universe.

 

[lightgigantic]

In Hinduism ..... , souls are created as well, and this creation process never stops. Again, if something was created than it can't be eternal.

reference please
sounds like there is a confusion between the body and the soul

BG 2.20 BG 2.20: For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

 

[Adstar]

Christianity, or more specifically the Bible, states that the spirits of humans were created by God in God's image. To be created means that they must not have existed before, so human spirits (and angels for that matter) can't possibly be eternal because eternity goes in both directions.

Eternity going in both directions has no bearing on when something is created or begins, just because something is eternal "God" does not mean that everything is eternal. Your whole post is based on the above bolded quote so the basis of your argument is faulty and cannot be proven.

In Hinduism and Islam, souls are created as well, and this creation process never stops. Again, if something was created than it can't be eternal.

Again simply making a statement twice does not make it fact.

I just thought it was interesting to point out that many religions say that the soul is eternal, but it can't be since it was created.

So you say it a third time??? What are you trying to establish it as a fact by the technique of repition. LOL

Basically, if we have an invisible thing called a soul/spirit/whatever, than it really isn't eternal by nature. Since we had a beginning, we can have an end (namely, God can end it if he began it).

What? You have been saying that God has no choice in the matter, that if something is created it cannot exist forever after it was created, so that God could not keep a created being in existence forever.

But anyway, If it is Gods wills for a created being to exist forever after it's creation then the question of what God could do it irrelevant, Gods will is eternal.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[NDS]

reference please
sounds like there is a confusion between the body and the soul

BG 2.20 BG 2.20: For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

Thank you for the scripture text LG. It seems that there is one religion which may believe in an eternal soul: Hinduism.

Tell me though, how many spirits/souls (not bodies) exist right now? If you state that no new spirits/souls are ever created, then there must be a set number of individual spirits/souls in existence right now, right? This is all semantics and other unimportant shit but its fun to talk about and ponder.

So again, are new spirits/souls ever created according to your branch of Hinduism? If not, then at some point in time, is it possible that EVERY SINGLE SPIRIT/SOUL (not body) can reach Nirvana? If so, then what will the point of the physical realm (reincarnation, humans, animals) be since there will be no spirits to possess them?

This is fun to talk about to me. I'm not trying to disprove Hinduism or anything so don't take it that way (actually, I think Hinduism is very plausible in a lot of ways and makes sense in a lot of ways).

 

[NDS]

Eternity going in both directions has no bearing on when something is created or begins, just because something is eternal "God" does not mean that everything is eternal. Your whole post is based on the above bolded quote so the basis of your argument is faulty and cannot be proven.




Again simply making a statement twice does not make it fact.



So you say it a third time??? What are you trying to establish it as a fact by the technique of repition. LOL





What? You have been saying that God has no choice in the matter, that if something is created it cannot exist forever after it was created, so that God could not keep a created being in existence forever.

But anyway, If it is Gods wills for a created being to exist forever after it's creation then the question of what God could do it irrelevant, Gods will is eternal.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar, thanks for the comments and basically saying that I'm a retard (I'll admit that I am partially retarded, lol). Anyway, please help me with this question:

God says in Genesis Chapter 1 verse 26,

"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
NKJV

I was taught that that means he (they?) created the sprits of the humans here (male and female). And then later in Genesis 2 he creates physical man and puts the spirit of Adam (created in Gen. 1) into this physical man.


Think about it: According to Christianity, there will a finite and set number of spirits which will live as a human on earth. At some point, Jesus will end the physical realm/world/earth and will bring heaven down to earth.

Let's say that he returns on January 1, 2009. This would mean that X number of spirits have experienced life on earth. Let's say, just as an example, that exactly 1,304,402,494,202,282,282,029,029,202 individual spirits lived on earth starting from the Adam spirit's existence (the first spirit to live on earth in a human body).

Basically, I always thought that those exact number of spirits were created in Gen. 1 and that all those spirits waited in heaven until their turn to come down to earth. Is that accurate or way off?

Adstar, do you believe your spirit existed before you existed as a physical human? If so, that would support my interpretation of Gen. 1:26.

Note: All this discussion of eternal souls is trivial and doesn't prove or disprove anything. It's just fun to ponder. That's why we're all on this site right? To think and ponder what the hell reality we are in and the nature of reality.

 

[NDS]

In regards to the poll I just added, I frankly hate the idea of not existing. Call it bioloigcal or survival instinct, or whatever, but I do not want to not exist.

 

[Yorda]

Tell me though, how many spirits/souls (not bodies) exist right now?

Infinite. All souls are actually part of one "supersoul" (God). They are separated from it, and then they go back (nirvana), and then they are separated again, forever.

 

[Myles]

In regards to the poll I just added, I frankly hate the idea of not existing. Call it bioloigcal or survival instinct, or whatever, but I do not want to not exist.

Don't worry. You didn't complain of non-existence before you were born and you won't when you die, Just enjoy the bit in the middle; it's really all you've got.