No Healthcare for Smokers,Drinkers,Fat,Old..

[sandy]

How much do you pay for health insurance, 'Sandy'? I just did a quick check and it looks like a few hundred dollars a month would be cheap. That rate involves copay of $250 for some treatments, and between $15 and $30 per consultation each time.
I pay about £40 a month for my private care, my company contribute too, and there is ZERO copay.
As for what I pay towards the NHS, well, less than the discrepancy. So I get both, for less, and you lose this debate.

I've been ignoring your personal attacking posts because they're usually so vile but this one is a no-brainer. I pay around $100/month for a very high- deductible catastrophic policy. Since I am never sick and never plan to use it, it works for me. (Remember I am one of those weird "faith healer"-type chicks whose faith is SO strong she is NEVER sick.) My policy is a write-off because I'm considered self-employed. I don't suck off of some company for mine either.

 

[pjdude1219]

I've been ignoring your personal attacking posts because they're usually so vile but this one is a no-brainer. I pay around $100/month for a very high- deductible catastrophic policy. Since I am never sick and never plan to use it, it works for me. (Remember I am one of those weird "faith healer"-type chicks whose faith is SO strong she is NEVER sick.) My policy is a write-off because I'm considered self-employed. I don't suck off of some company for mine either.

you do know there is only so far the mind can keep you healthy right?

 

[joepistole]

For some reason, I come to the opposite conclusion. Shouldn't madant agree with this proposal considering the rest of his rhetoric concerning government involvement?

Yes he should agree with my proposal to eliminate government intervention in his industry given his previous rhetoric. But he won't. Because current government regulation acts to artificially restrict the number of suppliers of his services thereby giving him monopoly pricing powers. He earns a lot more today than he would otherwise be entitled to if it were not for government regulation.

Now, what is happening is that prices for his services and the whole industry have reached a point where they cannot be sustained. So citizens are pushing the government to intervene. If government takes over the healthcare industry, the government will be acting as the competitor....something similar to how utilities are treated today.

 

[phlogistician]

I've been ignoring your personal attacking posts because they're usually so vile but this one is a no-brainer. I pay around $100/month for a very high- deductible catastrophic policy. Since I am never sick and never plan to use it, it works for me. (Remember I am one of those weird "faith healer"-type chicks whose faith is SO strong she is NEVER sick.) My policy is a write-off because I'm considered self-employed. I don't suck off of some company for mine either.

So what do you get for $100 a month? Will that level of expenditure see you through into retirement?

I need to know, 'Sandy', because we need to make an honest comparison. Most Americans pay more than $100 a month for healthcare, I'm sure.

btw, I'm one of those atheist types who doesn't get sick either, but being fairly sporty, get injured. Some people just don't get ill 'Sandy', that's not God, but a mixture of good luck, and good genes.

 

[sandy]

So what do you get for $100 a month? Will that level of expenditure see you through into retirement?I need to know, 'Sandy', because we need to make an honest comparison. Most Americans pay more than $100 a month for healthcare, I'm sure. btw, I'm one of those atheist types who doesn't get sick either, but being fairly sporty, get injured. Some people just don't get ill 'Sandy', that's not God, but a mixture of good luck, and good genes.

I'm not counting on this insurance for retirement. My portfolio can handle anything. Most Americans go to the doctor/hospital more than I do. They want to pay nothing. I'm never sick so I never pay anything.

You do what works for you. I'll keep doing what works for me.

 

[joepistole]

How much do you pay for health insurance, 'Sandy'? I just did a quick check and it looks like a few hundred dollars a month would be cheap. That rate involves copay of $250 for some treatments, and between $15 and $30 per consultation each time.

I pay about £40 a month for my private care, my company contribute too, and there is ZERO copay.

As for what I pay towards the NHS, well, less than the discrepancy. So I get both, for less, and you lose this debate.

Sandy is not the problem. And I think most of us outside the industry want the same things. We want quality and efficient healthcare...meaning we do not want to waste money if it can be avoided. And we want to provide for everyone so that no one suffers needlessly. And we want to see that professionals are adequately compensated...but not overly compensated as is the case today.

I am equally sure that Sandy, being a good Christian is well aware of Christ's charge and shares those beliefs...not wanting to put words in your mouth Sandy.

Matthew 25:40 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

But I am sure she is a generoous and charitable individual. She just does not like government telling her how to live her life. And I agree with her...and even more so when I have to go to a government office. Going into a government office has never been a pleasant experience for me.

 

[sandy]

Sandy is not the problem. And I think most of us outside the industry want the same things. We want quality and efficient healthcare...meaning we do not want to waste money if it can be avoided. And we want to provide for everyone so that no one suffers needlessly. And we want to see that professionals are adequately compensated...but not overly compensated as is the case today.

I am equally sure that Sandy, being a good Christian is well aware of Christ's charge and shares those beliefs...not wanting to put words in your mouth Sandy.

Matthew 25:40 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

But I am sure she is a generoous and charitable individual. She just does not like government telling her how to live her life. And I agree with her...and even more so when I have to go to a government office. Going into a government office has never been a pleasant experience for me.

Amen. And thank you.

 

[spidergoat]

People like Sandy are welcome to remain with a private insurer. All I want is for people that can't afford insurance to be able to afford it.

 

[sandy]

People like Sandy are welcome to remain with a private insurer. All I want is for people that can't afford insurance to be able to afford it.

Give me someone who "can't afford it" and I will show you how he can. We've been doing this for years. If they cut out their unnecessary spending, they can afford it. They just want handouts from the government.

We have people paying over $100/month for cel phones, cable, coffee, alcohol, cigarettes,fast food etc... There is always a way for this priority (insurance) and it's not the government's job.

We are already giving away free/cheap healthcare. Criminal aliens are stealing trillions of dollars worth of it every year. We already have programs for those who truly need it. But it's hard to figure out who's REALLY in need and who is just lazy/greedy/stupid. (They guy spending $200/month on cigarettes/alcohol would be one of the stupid ones...)

 

[pjdude1219]

Give me someone who "can't afford it" and I will show you how he can. We've been doing this for years. If they cut out their unnecessary spending, they can afford it. They just want handouts from the government.

We have people paying over $100/month for cel phones, cable, coffee, alcohol, cigarettes,fast food etc... There is always a way for this priority (insurance) and it's not the government's job.

We are already giving away free/cheap healthcare. Criminal aliens are stealing trillions of dollars worth of it every year. We already have programs for those who truly need it. But it's hard to figure out who's REALLY in need and who is just lazy/greedy/stupid. (They guy spending $200/month on cigarettes/alcohol would be one of the stupid ones...)

good health care is expensive the cheaper you go the more they deny you

 

[sandy]

good health care is expensive the cheaper you go the more they deny you

They try to deny everyone. That's their job. You have to fight if you have a claim. They just don't roll over and give everyone approval. That's why maintaining good health is essential. I will never need/use it so I don't care.

 

[phlogistician]

I'm not counting on this insurance for retirement. My portfolio can handle anything. Most Americans go to the doctor/hospital more than I do. They want to pay nothing. I'm never sick so I never pay anything.

That didn't answer my question, what do you get for $100/month?

I still maintain that the most Americans with private medical pay more far more than I do for both private and state funded health.

Therefore, our system is better.

 

[joepistole]

That didn't answer my question, what do you get for $100/month?

I still maintain that the most Americans with private medical pay more far more than I do for both private and state funded health.

Therefore, our system is better.

You are right Phlogistician we do pay more for healthcare than you do. We pay more than anywhere in the world. That is why you now have Americans leaving the country to obtain healthcare in developing countries.

And as stated previously, it is because of regulation of our healthcare system which prevents freemarket forces from correcting the supply/demand curve. The healthcare industry inconjunction with our government is limiting supply of healthcare goods and service driving up prices. If free markets were in play, this problem would have corrected itself decades ago.

This is not hard, this is just economics 101.

In your case the government has stepped in and said it will be the buyer of all healthcare goods and services. So it has prevented the industry from achieving the status it has in the United States. And there are many good aspects to it.
But I think it can be better as can most systems. You have the reverse of the situation we have in the United States. Your system runs the risk of limiting supply because of the lack of funding. It also has other performance and asset allocation risks. And big systems such as yours can limit innovation. But most people under your kind of healthcare plan seem to be happy with it and that is good, and your system is much more efficient than ours.

But I think we in the United States have an opportunity to do better, if we can keep the industry and government from restricting market forces. And we have not been able to do a very good job of that yet.

 

[ashura]

So joe, your solution to our health care problem would be to not have the government move towards a more socialized system, but to slowly move out of the business via elimination of regulation?

 

[pjdude1219]

You are right Phlogistician we do pay more for healthcare than you do. We pay more than anywhere in the world. That is why you now have Americans leaving the country to obtain healthcare in developing countries.

And as stated previously, it is because of regulation of our healthcare system which prevents freemarket forces from correcting the supply/demand curve. The healthcare industry inconjunction with our government is limiting supply of healthcare goods and service driving up prices. If free markets were in play, this problem would have corrected itself decades ago.

This is not hard, this is just economics 101.

In your case the government has stepped in and said it will be the buyer of all healthcare goods and services. So it has prevented the industry from achieving the status it has in the United States. And there are many good aspects to it.
But I think it can be better as can most systems. You have the reverse of the situation we have in the United States. Your system runs the risk of limiting supply because of the lack of funding. It also has other performance and asset allocation risks. And big systems such as yours can limit innovation. But most people under your kind of healthcare plan seem to be happy with it and that is good, and your system is much more efficient than ours.

But I think we in the United States have an opportunity to do better, if we can keep the industry and government from restricting market forces. And we have not been able to do a very good job of that yet.

the free market cannot ever reliably determaine the price private health care for one simple reason health care is not a economic good it is a public good

 

[lucifers angel]

bullshit every single country that has universal healthcare has overall better health care than the us

yeah right ok!!

your so wrong there, the NHS is shit, and full of no good doctors! (not all of the doctors are bad) but the ones who are bad are very bad!! why are people still suffering after 3 years of having an operation that went so wrong they can't even lift they're child,

 

[joepistole]

So joe, your solution to our health care problem would be to not have the government move towards a more socialized system, but to slowly move out of the business via elimination of regulation?

I think the word socialized gets over used. What I am proposing is that the government will still be a buyer of healthcare goods and services. It will be the largest single purchaser of healthcare products and services. But it will not buy all of the healthcare services and products. It will be the buyer of last resort for indigent and people who cannot afford healthcare. And it will continue to regulate insurance companies to ensure financial intergrity and performance.

Additionally, all residents would be required to carry healthcare insurance. I view healthcare insurance like I do car insurance. I would not drive without auto insurance, so why would I ever be without healthcare insurance. This is important because it prevents cost shifting from fiscally irresponsible folks to the more responsible folk.

Third, government has got to stop restricting supplies of healthcare services. History has taught us that free markets...capitalism... is the best way to allocate resources. That is why the capitalist societies over came the communistic societies in the later part of the last century. History has shown us that capitalism is just much better and production and distribution of goods and services than are socialistic or communistic economies. The problem with capitalism is that capitalism must be restrained as it tends to breed monoplies if not restrained. So you have this balancing act that must be maintained.

Deregulation of the industry will allow money to quickly flow to areas of higher demand, thus ultimately increasing supply for areas of demand and lower prices at the same time. This system rewards innovation. If you can be the first or the best, you will reap the rewards.

It is socialized in the sense that all people will be covered. It is capitalistic in that the organs of healthcare production and delivery remain private. It is efficient, in that resources are quickly allocated according to demand. And innovation and superior performance are rewarded.

Again, there is nothing new or complicated about this model it is just economics 101....no untested theory or principals.

 

[spidergoat]

Give me someone who "can't afford it" and I will show you how he can. We've been doing this for years. If they cut out their unnecessary spending, they can afford it. They just want handouts from the government.

We have people paying over $100/month for cel phones, cable, coffee, alcohol, cigarettes,fast food etc... There is always a way for this priority (insurance) and it's not the government's job.

We are already giving away free/cheap healthcare. Criminal aliens are stealing trillions of dollars worth of it every year. We already have programs for those who truly need it. But it's hard to figure out who's REALLY in need and who is just lazy/greedy/stupid. (They guy spending $200/month on cigarettes/alcohol would be one of the stupid ones...)

Emergency care is not health care. I like how you jump to characterize the people without health care as not frugal. What if they are the working poor, saving everything they can? What if they pay for insurance and the insurance company decides not to cover their particular condition?

The fact is insurance companies are not making it easy or affordable for people, because their goal is profit and denying health care. Republicans don't have the balls to regulate these predatory corporations. We need to go further and take out the profit entirely, it is in the interest of the well-being of the American people.

 

[iceaura]

And as stated previously, it is because of regulation of our healthcare system which prevents freemarket forces from correcting the supply/demand curve. The healthcare industry inconjunction with our government is limiting supply of healthcare goods and service driving up prices. If free markets were in play, this problem would have corrected itself decades ago.

This is not hard, this is just economics 101.

The demand for medical care is essentially infinite, and the US is an example of what happens if supply is linked to demand via (distorted) "markets" in a country with great income inequality.

If you want a better idea of what a market would look like in health care, look at veterinary medicine in the US - it's regulated, with regard to drugs etc, licensed and all that other stuff, completely under government control, but:

the customer is normally reasonably well informed and can walk away from the deal (demand can drop, if prices rise)

and insurance companies have little role - no large bureaucracy of service denial has created an arms race of rakeoffs.

So prices are very low, compared with the identical services as supplied by a hospital to a human. And poor people take their sick dogs out back and shoot them. Is that what you are shooting for, in US health care ?

 

[pjdude1219]

yeah right ok!!

your so wrong there, the NHS is shit, and full of no good doctors! (not all of the doctors are bad) but the ones who are bad are very bad!! why are people still suffering after 3 years of having an operation that went so wrong they can't even lift they're child,

the same shit happens in the usa too. overall countries that have universal health care get taken care of better